Grants:PEG/FF portal/IRC meeting 20Apr13

[2013-04-20 17:02:27] -->| YOU (Thomas_UK) have joined #flowfunding
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[2013-04-20 17:06:23] <Thomas_UK> The Flow Funding chat will start at 5PM (UTC)
[2013-04-20 17:52:19] [INFO] You are no longer marked as away.
[2013-04-20 18:02:08] -->| solstag_mob (~eris@177.141.196.88) has joined #flowfunding
[2013-04-20 18:02:21] <Thomas_UK> Hi Solstag!
[2013-04-20 18:02:32] <solstag_mob> hii Thomas_UK ;D
[2013-04-20 18:02:50] <solstag_mob> acha q alguem vai lembrar da reuniao? rrsrs
[2013-04-20 18:03:04] -->| Ilario (~chatzilla@host151-146-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #flowfunding
[2013-04-20 18:03:09] <solstag_mob> respondido
[2013-04-20 18:03:14] <solstag_mob> Ilario: hello!
[2013-04-20 18:03:26] <Thomas_UK> Hi Ilario
[2013-04-20 18:03:32] <Ilario> Hi
[2013-04-20 18:04:00] <Thomas_UK> Andrew, Poupou, Lila also confirmed to join us today. Kiril and Thuvack are participating in the chapters meeting (like Ilario) and they said they may also join.
[2013-04-20 18:04:22] <solstag_mob> nice =)
[2013-04-20 18:04:25] <Ilario> A small correction
[2013-04-20 18:04:35] <Ilario> I returned just now at home
[2013-04-20 18:04:55] <Ilario> So I left the wikiconference this afternoon
[2013-04-20 18:05:00] <Thomas_UK> But to make the most of our time, I suggest we start now. Ok?
[2013-04-20 18:05:09] <Ilario> ok
[2013-04-20 18:05:37] <solstag_mob> alright
[2013-04-20 18:05:52] <Thomas_UK> Has anybody ever heard from Ganesh?
[2013-04-20 18:06:05] <solstag_mob> he's in milan as well
[2013-04-20 18:06:20] <Thomas_UK> He is also a flow funder but he has never participated in our IRC meetings so far.
[2013-04-20 18:06:37] <solstag_mob> let me see if he's online over xmpp
[2013-04-20 18:06:54] <Ilario> yes
[2013-04-20 18:06:58] <solstag_mob> he is, but it says he's busy, m asking him
[2013-04-20 18:07:11] <Ilario> He was in Milan
[2013-04-20 18:07:17] <Thomas_UK> Great. Let's hope he can join us too.
[2013-04-20 18:07:45] <Ilario> He is member of the chapter-to-be Wikimedia Nepal
[2013-04-20 18:07:53] <solstag_mob> i just invited him here
[2013-04-20 18:08:00] <solstag_mob> lets see what he says
[2013-04-20 18:08:13] <Thomas_UK> Ilario and Solstag. Is there anything in particular you would like to discuss during this chat?
[2013-04-20 18:08:44] <Ilario> I am finishing my proposal of project
[2013-04-20 18:08:53] <Thomas_UK> In any case, I will suggest each participant to share an update about how things ae going.
[2013-04-20 18:08:54] <Ilario> I stopped to be in Milan
[2013-04-20 18:09:08] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: Great news! What is it about?
[2013-04-20 18:09:47] <Ilario> To help a member of another cultural association
[2013-04-20 18:10:09] <Ilario> To have meetings about wikipedia
[2013-04-20 18:10:39] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: what sort of outcomes do you expect from this project?
[2013-04-20 18:10:40] <Ilario> and about free content
[2013-04-20 18:11:01] <Ilario> To approach some people operating in the arts
[2013-04-20 18:11:12] <Ilario> like writers and musicians
[2013-04-20 18:11:29] <Ilario> with an association which is not strictly related to Wikipedia
[2013-04-20 18:14:32] <solstag_mob> ok ganesh is not coming now
[2013-04-20 18:14:40] <solstag_mob> hes in an asia meeting at wmconf
[2013-04-20 18:15:12] <solstag_mob> Ilario: thats good, ive been thinking similarly, but its hard! hehe
[2013-04-20 18:16:06] <Thomas_UK> Ilario and Solstag: In your opinion, why the flow funding model, and not any other existing channel, could be more adapted to fund this sort project ?
[2013-04-20 18:16:23] <Ilario> Yes
[2013-04-20 18:16:55] <Ilario> I have been in Milan to discuss about the channels of funding
[2013-04-20 18:17:14] <Ilario> Basically their channels fund chapters or groups
[2013-04-20 18:17:15] <Thomas_UK> (I am asking that because we will eventually have to evaluate the pilot and understand what it is the flow funding model contribution)
[2013-04-20 18:17:21] <solstag_mob> i think so, as a kind of invitation, a demonstration of appreciation.
[2013-04-20 18:17:47] <Ilario> but groups of wikipedians/wikimedians
[2013-04-20 18:17:57] <Ilario> also the IEG funds mainly wikipedians
[2013-04-20 18:18:56] <solstag_mob> but its hard with the limitations we have
[2013-04-20 18:19:00] <Ilario> Sometimes
[2013-04-20 18:19:08] <Ilario> Individuals apply in IEG
[2013-04-20 18:19:11] <solstag_mob> im feeling that 500 dollars is too much money
[2013-04-20 18:19:41] <Ilario> It depends
[2013-04-20 18:19:58] <Ilario> There are really good associations but without possibilities
[2013-04-20 18:20:02] <Ilario> to fund
[2013-04-20 18:20:06] <solstag_mob> in that sense of an invitation, its like inviting someone you just met to your birthday party, instead of first having lunch with them
[2013-04-20 18:21:19] <solstag_mob> its hard to approach someone and tell them if they want to start a collaboration with wikimedia they must take 500 USD from it, it is too much of a committment
[2013-04-20 18:25:30] <Thomas_UK> The WMF set the $500 minimum contribution, but if there is enough demand for smaller grants in the future there should be a solution to make smaller grants also happen too.
[2013-04-20 18:26:19] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: Do you also see demand for smaller flow funding grants?
[2013-04-20 18:26:51] <Ilario> What do you mean?
[2013-04-20 18:27:00] <Ilario> In IEG?
[2013-04-20 18:27:22] <Thomas_UK> If I understood what you both said, the flow funding model can help the movement to expand by engaging and financilally supporting non-wikipedian individuals and groups. Right?
[2013-04-20 18:27:36] <solstag_mob> yes
[2013-04-20 18:27:36] <Ilario> Yes
[2013-04-20 18:27:39] <Ilario> But also
[2013-04-20 18:27:45] <Ilario> wikipedians
[2013-04-20 18:27:53] <Ilario> What I have seen in Milan
[2013-04-20 18:28:02] <Ilario> is that the individuals
[2013-04-20 18:28:10] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: No. You, as a flow funder, would like to be able to make smaller grants (<$500)?
[2013-04-20 18:28:11] <Ilario> would finance their ideas
[2013-04-20 18:28:34] <Ilario> For single people yes
[2013-04-20 18:28:42] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: Can you give an example of a project?
[2013-04-20 18:28:45] <Ilario> for individuals yes
[2013-04-20 18:29:00] <solstag_mob> sure, wikipedians as well
[2013-04-20 18:29:24] <Ilario> In IEG there are requests for <$500 $
[2013-04-20 18:29:44] <Ilario> but in countries where 500 $ is a big amount of money
[2013-04-20 18:29:53] <Ilario> not in Europe
[2013-04-20 18:30:36] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: In your opinion, what are the major differences between IEG and the Flow Funding model?
[2013-04-20 18:31:06] <Ilario> IEG finances projects with low risks
[2013-04-20 18:31:08] <solstag_mob> Ilario: yes its kinda funny, that ieg can have small requests but flow funding which is supposed to be very flexible and reach fringe cases
[2013-04-20 18:31:29] <Ilario> mainly to don't be a wikipedian
[2013-04-20 18:31:34] <Ilario> is a big risk
[2013-04-20 18:31:54] <Ilario> so an individual with low experience in Wikimedia project
[2013-04-20 18:31:59] <Ilario> has low possibility
[2013-04-20 18:32:21] <Ilario> In flow funding
[2013-04-20 18:32:39] <Ilario> In addition
[2013-04-20 18:33:05] <Ilario> If I would suggest someone I cannot evaluate it for the COI
[2013-04-20 18:33:14] <Ilario> In FF
[2013-04-20 18:34:10] <Ilario> In general it's difficult to attract people external to wikimedia projects with good ideas in IEG
[2013-04-20 18:34:35] <Ilario> to apply for fund through IEG (sorry)
[2013-04-20 18:36:18] <solstag_mob> so Ilario your saying flow funding could be a door for more uncertain projects that have potential to bring new people to the movement?
[2013-04-20 18:36:26] <Ilario> Yes
[2013-04-20 18:36:48] <Ilario> and if the project is successful they may apply for more funds in IEG
[2013-04-20 18:36:58] <Ilario> using the FF experience
[2013-04-20 18:37:11] <Ilario> (sorry I have to live for 15 minutes)
[2013-04-20 18:37:13] <solstag_mob> very good, thats very similar to how i think
[2013-04-20 18:38:00] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: You are saying that the funding process is a major difference between the IEG and the FF model, is that correct? The Flow Funder is the one responsible for attracting, engaging and supporting fund-seekers, whereas in the IEG there is only a door open.
[2013-04-20 18:38:27] <solstag_mob> Thomas_UK: not really
[2013-04-20 18:38:59] <solstag_mob> i think it has that, but also has a component of what kind of projects have a chance there
[2013-04-20 18:39:56] <solstag_mob> Ilario: i have a situation that i'd like to hear other opinions
[2013-04-20 18:40:29] <solstag_mob> i saw a crowdfunding project by a group of cycling activists which includes a photographer
[2013-04-20 18:40:45] <solstag_mob> so like these groups you mentioned, people outside wikimedia, but in the arts and culture
[2013-04-20 18:40:52] <solstag_mob> but its crowdfunding
[2013-04-20 18:41:05] <solstag_mob> i thought about using flowfunding money to help the crowdfunding
[2013-04-20 18:41:31] <solstag_mob> without me offering this, they already agreed to put part of the content under free licenses
[2013-04-20 18:42:19] <solstag_mob> the project is a book about bicycle culture in brazil, theyll visit many cities and register cyclists and write about their habits and what it means to be a cyclist in different places and for different people in the country
[2013-04-20 18:43:09] <solstag_mob> thus it will have a lot of material interesting to our projects, documenting a significant aspect of life in many cities
[2013-04-20 18:43:35] <solstag_mob> so im interested in what ppl think about helping finance crowdfunded projects
[2013-04-20 18:47:04] <Thomas_UK> solstag_mob: I agree that it is a very interesting way to allocate flow fuding resources. But in case the project does not receive enough donations to cover the entire amount , does the crowdfunding platform allow the flow funding grant to return to the WMF?
[2013-04-20 18:51:46] <Ilario> Sorry, just returned
[2013-04-20 18:51:51] <Ilario> Correct
[2013-04-20 18:51:58] <solstag_mob> Ilario: hehe you have some backlog ; )
[2013-04-20 18:52:07] <Ilario> Yes, I am reading it
[2013-04-20 18:52:18] <Ilario> Yes, I agree
[2013-04-20 18:53:44] <solstag_mob> =)
[2013-04-20 18:54:02] <Thomas_UK> solstag_mob: Usually crowdfunding projects give special gifts to their "funders". How do you suggest to proceed with those benefits?
[2013-04-20 18:55:27] <Thomas_UK> Ilario and Solstag: We have 5 more mintues before we finish this chat. Is there anything else you would like to discuss today?
[2013-04-20 18:57:11] <solstag_mob> so regarding your questions, first, yes the funds may return
[2013-04-20 18:57:51] <solstag_mob> but probably due to transaction costs it would be better not to move them back to the us.
[2013-04-20 18:58:00] <solstag_mob> us -> USA
[2013-04-20 18:58:23] <Ilario> Sorry
[2013-04-20 18:58:37] <solstag_mob> and about the rewards, i think it would be a side agreement about increasing their commitment to free knowledge and wikimedia projects
[2013-04-20 18:58:39] <Ilario> another phone call from WM IT from the conference
[2013-04-20 18:59:01] <Ilario> Yes I would add a point
[2013-04-20 18:59:03] <solstag_mob> but we could take the normal rewards as well, in this case it is a book, which could be given to some wikipedian so that he can use it as study material
[2013-04-20 18:59:37] <Ilario> In Milan there was the feeling that the chapters or individuals are looking to be funded
[2013-04-20 18:59:54] <Ilario> but the processes of WMF are too hard are too complicated
[2013-04-20 19:00:11] <Ilario> What chapters are looking for
[2013-04-20 19:00:44] <Ilario> for instance
[2013-04-20 19:00:56] <Ilario> It's to have facilitators
[2013-04-20 19:00:59] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: Has anyone mentioned the Flow Funding model in Milan?
[2013-04-20 19:01:26] <Ilario> No, at least in the meeting where I attendeed
[2013-04-20 19:02:27] <Ilario> Anyway
[2013-04-20 19:02:44] <Ilario> WMF joined the meetings only today
[2013-04-20 19:03:13] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: Would you be willing to fund any chapter looking for a facilitator with your flow funding resources?
[2013-04-20 19:04:11] <Ilario> The problems are not to fund
[2013-04-20 19:04:21] <Ilario> but to have a person with experience
[2013-04-20 19:04:54] <Ilario> Also the biggest chapters
[2013-04-20 19:04:56] <Thomas_UK> Ilario and solstag_mob: Do you want to continue the conversation and I will keep logging it after I have to leave?
[2013-04-20 19:05:17] <Ilario> In my opinion it would be better to have it with more people
[2013-04-20 19:06:36] <solstag_mob> it seems we agree on everything ; ) including that it would be better to have more people, so someone can disagree haha
[2013-04-20 19:07:29] <solstag_mob> i also must invest more time in promoting flowfunding
[2013-04-20 19:07:54] <solstag_mob> i havent done that very well, have been too absorbed by my own projects
[2013-04-20 19:08:31] <Thomas_UK> We may find more ppl to disagree on the FF portal. Ilario and Solstag, can you add your suggestions to the discussion page of the FF portal?
[2013-04-20 19:08:41] <solstag_mob> i think that is something we should consider in a report, that flowfunding requires time and discipline
[2013-04-20 19:08:45] <Ilario> Yes
[2013-04-20 19:09:08] <solstag_mob> ok
[2013-04-20 19:09:15] <Thomas_UK> solstag_mob: Good point!
[2013-04-20 19:09:44] <Ilario> Sorry to have been not so "present" but I am returning back to the normality after the Wikiconference in Milan
[2013-04-20 19:09:45] <Ilario> :)
[2013-04-20 19:10:27] <Thomas_UK> Ilario: You are the only flow funder who joined two IRC meetings. Everyone else did only once.
[2013-04-20 19:11:11] <Thomas_UK> But both of you guys haven't shared a project to be funded (yet).
[2013-04-20 19:11:12] <Ilario> Anyway also in IEG and in the GAC
[2013-04-20 19:11:24] <Thomas_UK> I have to leave now, but thanks everyone for joining today. I am looking forward to seeing both of your fund requests. I will keep logging this conversation in case you feel like discussing something else.
[2013-04-20 19:11:36] <Ilario> There are frequent absences
[2013-04-20 19:11:37] -->| lila (c9fc83fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.252.131.252) has joined #flowfunding
[2013-04-20 19:11:42] <solstag_mob> oh
[2013-04-20 19:11:48] <Ilario> Thank you
[2013-04-20 19:12:09] [INFO] You are now marked as away (I'm not here right now.). Click the nickname button or use the |/back| command to return from being away.
[2013-04-20 19:12:15] <solstag_mob> thank you thomas for arranging this meeting =)
[2013-04-20 19:12:22] <lila> Hi everybody, I'm sorry I'm arriving so late
[2013-04-20 19:12:34] <Ilario> Ok, I leave
[2013-04-20 19:12:40] <Ilario> see you next time
[2013-04-20 19:12:43] |<-- Ilario has left freenode (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949])
[2013-04-20 19:12:45] <solstag_mob> i am in a barbecue right now, you're all invited ; ) if you can get to sao paulo soon. hehe
[2013-04-20 19:12:55] <solstag_mob> hi lila
[2013-04-20 19:13:47] <lila> I guess you are about finish ... :(
[2013-04-20 19:14:30] <lila> So, anyone could send the log later?
[2013-04-20 19:14:50] <solstag_mob> lila: how you doing? if you want we can talk a bit
[2013-04-20 19:15:14] <lila> oh, yes, thank you
[2013-04-20 19:15:15] <solstag_mob> do you have anything particular you want to share?
[2013-04-20 19:15:22] <lila> I make some advances this days
[2013-04-20 19:15:52] <lila> On one idea I have commented to Thomas before, a project in La Paz, Bolivia
[2013-04-20 19:16:15] <lila> I contacted people there, and we have a quite mature idea
[2013-04-20 19:16:36] <lila> with the support of wikimedian community of La Paz
[2013-04-20 19:17:10] <lila> I was wondering which is the next step
[2013-04-20 19:23:43] <solstag_mob> hmm
[2013-04-20 19:24:07] <solstag_mob> interesting, I dont know how much thomas can help, but id like to know better the specifics of that
[2013-04-20 19:24:26] <solstag_mob> because im not finding projects easily, id like to know what worked for you =)
[2013-04-20 19:31:34] <lila> the original idea for this project was regarding to uploading the personal photo archive of Julio Cordero, that is in public domain
[2013-04-20 19:32:55] <lila> a person of a women organization had published a book of this some time ago, but the book is now sold out
[2013-04-20 19:33:14] <lila> So the idea was propose them to upload the photos to COmmons
[2013-04-20 19:34:12] <lila> When we asked them about the idea, it seems it's not possible yet, because of Bolivia's law and other factors
[2013-04-20 19:34:53] <lila> But they were very interested in collaborating and we reconsider the idea regarding they own production
[2013-04-20 19:36:10] <lila> they are artists, performerse very well known internationally
[2013-04-20 19:36:12] <lila> www.mujerescreando.org/
[2013-04-20 19:39:03] <solstag_mob> hmm
[2013-04-20 19:39:09] <solstag_mob> thats very nice =D
[2013-04-20 19:39:27] <lila> they proposes to liberate their photo documentation of their work, specially of their graffities
[2013-04-20 19:39:41] <solstag_mob> i had a project i was looking after, it has some similarities
[2013-04-20 19:40:05] <lila> and we are also discussing the idea of an event, a kind of editathon in their place
[2013-04-20 19:40:09] <solstag_mob> its a group of bicycle activists that are also photographers
[2013-04-20 19:40:29] <solstag_mob> editathon with artists thats interesting...
[2013-04-20 19:41:20] <solstag_mob> they have a project to document cyclists and cycling culture around the country, in many cities
[2013-04-20 19:42:11] <solstag_mob> they agreed to release part of the material for their book with free licenses
[2013-04-20 19:43:02] <solstag_mob> but their project is crowdfunded, and I was thinking if flowfunding could be used to assist the crowdfund
[2013-04-20 19:43:58] <solstag_mob> in return they could strengthen the project's commitment to free culture, and the rewards (book copies) could be given to wikipedians for study and reference
[2013-04-20 19:52:02] <lila> yes, we also discuss the idea of printing some postcards with the photos uploaded and some Wikipedia info
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