Grants talk:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/PunjabWiki Education Program (ID: 22457360)

Follow-up Questions from South Asia Regional Funds Committee and Programme Officer

Hello @Jagseer S Sidhu,

Thank you for your interest in the rapid fund programme. Your grant application has moved from the grant eligibility phase to grant review phase and it is undergoing the review process. Would you be able to provide responses to the following questions?

Thank you and looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards, Jacqueline on behalf of the SA Funds Committee

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1) Could you share how your current grant application differs from the Wiki Education Programme that started in June 2023? Were you also able to secure resources/ funds to run the project then?

2) Could you provide more details on how you will be working with your team mates to implement your grant? Are they all aware and supportive of your project and what type of support will they provide during the course of the project?

3) Would you be able to provide more information on your connection/involvement with the Punjab Wikimedia Community and your Wikimedian in Residence experience?

4) How do you plan to engage and encourage interest and participation from the Punjab Wikimedia Community (or other communities you are closely connected with)? We observed that there has not been any sign ups for your project? Wikipedia/ Wikisource

5) Could you provide more details on how your cost estimates were derived based on the budget that you have submitted? What are your benchmarks for the costings? This will enable us to better understand your thought process. Is there a compelling reason for buying a laptop instead of renting? JChen (WMF) (talk) 01:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Jacqueline. I hope you are doing well.

Thanks for your response on the application. Here are the the responses to the questions:

1) Could you share how your current grant application differs from the Wiki Education Programme that started in June 2023? Were you also able to secure resources/ funds to run the project then?

The current grant application aims to build upon the foundation of the Wiki Education Program, which commenced in August 2023, rather than deviating from its original objectives. Since its inception, I have been dedicated to advancing the project on a voluntary basis. However, to secure the project's sustainability and endurance, support from the grant team is imperative. The grant funding will facilitate the smooth operation of the project, ensuring its continuation over an extended period, and furthering its impact within the community.

2) Could you provide more details on how you will be working with your team mates to implement your grant? Are they all aware and supportive of your project and what type of support will they provide during the course of the project?

Our collaboration with teammates will primarily take place online, leveraging various digital tools for effective communication and coordination.

Suyash.dwivedi will be instrumental in establishing partnerships with other Wiki projects, such as Wikimedia Commons, and with organizations like the Raspberry Pi Foundation, expanding our project's reach and impact.

Netha Hussain's extensive experience in running Wiki education programs will bring invaluable insights and innovative strategies to ensure the project's success.

Akbarali's expertise as an educator, particularly in EduWiki projects, will be pivotal in designing and implementing our program, with a focus on engaging and empowering students.

Additionally, Amandeep Kaur, though not directly involved in Wikimedia, as being teacher in the same school, will play a vital role in organizing training sessions and providing ongoing supervision and support to students, ensuring they derive maximum benefit from the program.

I (Jagseer) being project lead will be responsible for the execution the plans and strategies on ground. Work closely with school authorities and engaging students to Wiki platforms.

3) Would you be able to provide more information on your connection/involvement with the Punjab Wikimedia Community and your Wikimedian in Residence experience?

I maintain regular contact with several members of the Punjabi Wikimedia community, engaging with them frequently through phone calls and social media. However, due to prior professional commitments, I have been unable to join them in recent offline events. Regarding my experience as a Wikimedian in Residence, I worked with senior secondary class students to involve them in various Wiki projects. The project lasted for one year, but unfortunately, it did not sustain due to the COVID-19 lockdown. As I was relatively new to Wikimedia at that time, I encountered numerous challenges in running the program. However, the lessons learned from that experience have been invaluable in preparing me to successfully manage the current project.

4) How do you plan to engage and encourage interest and participation from the Punjab Wikimedia Community (or other communities you are closely connected with)? We observed that there has not been any sign ups for your project? Wikipedia/ Wikisource

While there haven't been any sign-ups from the Punjabi community for the project so far, we are actively engaging with other community members. It's important to note that the project is open to everyone. To encourage participation, We presented the project during the South Asia Open Community Call and invited Wikimedia members to join. Additionally, We proposed the project on both the Punjabi Wikipedia and Wikisource village pumps. We continue to share updates with Indian communities, actively encouraging their participation. This is the starting phase of the project and two Punjabi Wikimedia Community members have joined the program, to contribute online. Since this project will not demand their offline presence they will host some online Wikisource sessions.

Due to lack of time and distance, I cannot join this program with you every week, but I can contribute to it online. Being a school teacher and Wikimedia volunteer I have first-hand experience working with teachers and students about Wikimedia. That experience can also come in handy. Rest of this project I can support you in creating syllabus and tutorials. - Mulkh Singh

This is a very good initiative. I have been working on wikisource for a long time now, I can share my experience with the wiki community online. - Gurtej Chauhan

Additionally, our current team for this project consists of individuals with expertise in Eduwiki Projects, who are committed to ensuring the project runs smoothly and provides maximum benefits to the students involved. Their dedication is crucial for the success of the project.

5) Could you provide more details on how your cost estimates were derived based on the budget that you have submitted? What are your benchmarks for the costings? This will enable us to better understand your thought process. Is there a compelling reason for buying a laptop instead of renting?

The budget specifies different types of expenses and their details. Please let me know which section of the budget you would like further clarification on, and I can provide more information. Regarding the decision to purchase a laptop instead of renting, we anticipate this project to be a long-term endeavor. Buying a laptop ensures that the device becomes a project asset, which will be valuable for future phases. This approach is more cost-effective and sustainable in the long run compared to renting. --Jagseer S Sidhu (talk) 03:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Concerns from the local community

Hello Jagseer S Sidhu,

I hope this message finds you well. My name is Gaurav Jhammat, and I serve as the contact person for the Punjabi wiki community. I appreciate the effort you've put into your grant proposal, which directly or indirectly involves the Punjabi community. I'd like to share some feedback with you in the hopes of addressing a few concerns.

1. Firstly, I'd like to inquire about the level of awareness within the Punjabi community regarding this proposal. Could you please elaborate on the methods used to inform and solicit input from community members? Additionally, while reviewing the team members listed in your proposal, I noticed a lack of direct association with the Punjabi community and you also removed your name from the Punjabi Wikimedians User group (see 41th name) [1] and also you also have withdrew your name from the organizing team of Punjabi Wikimedians Conference [2]. In light of this, I'm curious about the nature of engagement with "several" Punjabi users mentioned in previous conversations. It appears that their contributions may be in individual capacities rather than as representatives of the community.
2. I would like to address a point about above discussion where you mentioned your role as a teacher (Wikimedian In Residence) involved in Wikipedia training at a school, which unfortunately could not proceed due to the Covid lockdown. I want to provide some clarification regarding this collaboration with the school. The school had reached out to the Punjabi community previously, requesting assistance in training their students and teachers on wiki projects. As a result of community decision, you were selected to represent the community and provide training at the school. Following your involvement, the school's teaching staff and MD expressed their dissatisfaction with the training provided and was concerned about your behaviour. They felt that the level of wiki training did not meet their expectations, leading to a decision not to proceed with further collaboration with the Punjabi community. This feedback presented challenges for us in organizing subsequent events, such as the first conference of the Punjabi community held at the school. As a result, efforts were made to rebuild trust with the school and demonstrate the capabilities of the Punjabi Wiki Community. It is important for us to address and learn from these experiences to improve our future collaborations and engagements.
3. Regarding your recent absence from Punjabi community meetings, I understand that personal commitments may have prevented your attendance. However, I'd like to address the concern that this proposal was not shared within the community through appropriate channels. If I am not wrong you shared about the proposal on Punjabi Wikipedia VP, however, VP is one of the platform to engage community in discussions, after that we always discuss it in community meetings, especially, Funding projects. It seems that the proposal was discussed in a broader South Asia open community call rather than specifically within the Punjabi community. Consequently, there may have been a missed opportunity for direct community engagement.
4. Additionally, there have been reports of some inappropriate behave of yours with Punjabi Wikimedians during various wiki events. One of the Wikimedian (female) raised her concern in a community meeting too. While efforts were made to address this through email communication, it appears that this matter has not been resolved or discussed further within the community. This has led to some skepticism regarding the level of genuine community involvement in the proposal.

In summary, while the proposal references the Punjabi community, there are concerns about the depth of community engagement and transparency in the process. It's important to ensure that proposals align closely with the interests and input of the community they represent. If this proposal is intended as an individual initiative, it should be clarified as such. However, if it is intended to involve the Punjabi community, greater efforts should be made to involve community members in the decision-making process.

Thank you for your attention to these matters, and I look forward to further discussion and clarification. @Gaurav Jhammat Gaurav Jhammat (talk) 16:31, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Dear Gaurav, It could have been even better if you had raised these concerns on the village pump, when I proposed the project on the same. I believe most of the concerns could have been sorted out there. Anyways, here are my answers to your question:

1. The question number 1 and 3 are quite similar, I will address both in answer 1. The level of awareness within the Punjabi community about this proposal and the concern that it wasn't shared through proper channels are invalid. It's important to note that this is an individual project, not a community-led one. I believe the Village Pump is a suitable place to start discussions within the community. Despite informing the community about the project, there was no engagement or comments from anyone, including yourself, after the proposal was posted. I believe that after a proposal is shared on the Village Pump, the community should initiate further discussion. Therefore, I believe I informed the community about the project appropriately, even though it's an individual effort.
   Regarding my removal from the Punjabi Wikimedians User group and the organizing team of the Punjabi Wikimedians Conference, I did so because some users from Punjabi Wikimedia UG were not behaving with me in a respectful manner and working with them was affecting my mental peace. I felt disconnected from the User Group due to some past incidents. It is not just me, there are a number of experienced users who are now inactive from Punjabi WIkimedia UG because of the same reason. I want to clarify here that leaving a User Group does not mean that one is not part of the community. I left the user group but I am continuously working on Punjabi Wikipedia and Wikisource, you can check my contribution here This project is focused to engage students to Wikipedia, I am building the community which will help to grow Punjabi Wikipedia/WIkisource as a whole. However, I appreciate your concern about this issue. I wonder why you didn't contact me regarding my removal. As an experienced member and one of the contact persons, don't you think you should have contacted me to understand my reasons? I've been contributing to the Punjabi Wiki with the Punjabi Wikimedia User Group since 2017, and I consider myself an experienced Punjabi Wikimedian and here are some of my notable works:

• Exploring Wikipedia With Punjabi Tamil and Bengali Wiki Community. A Comprehensive Guide An podcast with Punjab, Tamil and Bengali Wiki Community
• Punjabi Audiobooks Project - I lead this project and It was totally on volunteer basis. See the outcome here
• Indic Wikisource Proofreadthon 2020 - Top Wikisource contributor (Punjabi)
• Feminism and Folklore 2023 - I coordinated this program and Punjabi Community secured first position, see result here
• Project Tiger Writing Contest 2018 - One of the top contributor.
• Project Tiger Writing Contest 2020 - Top contributor on third position and also in Jury members.

It's disappointing that after doing this much work with the Punjabi Wikimedia UG, no one tried to understand my reasons for leaving. I humbly ask, does the Punjabi Wikimedia User Group take any steps to retain experienced members?
Regarding engagement with "several" Punjabi users, I believe that every individual from the community represents the community. Even if only one person from the community has signed up for the project, it should be considered community participation.

1. When the school's teaching staff and Managing Director expressed dissatisfaction with the training provided and concerns about my behavior, they did not mention the additional tasks they assigned to me. The extra workload from the school and MD's personal tasks made it challenging for me to focus on my primary goal, leading to lower productivity than desired. For example, being asked to perform unrelated school tasks in the middle of the night, being expected to assist in personal activities like playing tennis, being tasked with administrative duties, and being responsible for recording and editing school events' videos (and the list is long) all contributed to the dissatisfaction with the training provided.
   Regarding behavior, I would request an assessment of their behavior towards me. I have faced humiliation and harassment several times at the school. When a Wikimedian In Residence is treated in such a manner, meeting expectations becomes challenging.
   It's important to note that the project was discontinued in 2020, and it's now 2024. If I was the problem, why did no one from the UG attempt to continue the project in these three years?
   I acknowledge that I was not very knowledgeable about Wiki work at that time and made mistakes. However, the lessons learned from those mistakes are guiding me to run the current project successfully. It's essential to recognize that the future of this project should not be influenced by past mistakes but should instead be seen as a learning opportunity to ensure a successful outcome.
2. The question is addressed in Asnwer 1
3. I want to emphasize that there have been misunderstandings, and forming opinions based on one side of the story can lead to bias. I wonder why no one from the community, as representatives, attempted to contact me about this matter. While I admit that I may have displayed inappropriate behavior, it's important to note that I may have also experienced inappropriate behavior. I did receive an email directly from the concerned person, and further discussion without involvement of User Group could have complicated matters. If the UG or its representatives had made efforts, I believe we could have resolved the issue by now. While it's understandable to raise this concern now, addressing it six months ago when it first arose would have been more beneficial.

In the summary, I want to clarify that the project is individual initiative. It is clearly stated as "grant type: Individual," and I would suggest reviewing the Applicant Details for confirmation. However, I have made extra efforts to involve the Punjabi Wikimedia UG in this project, as their involvement would be highly beneficial. I kindly request the UG to consider being a part of it. Please do not be confused by the name "PunjabWiki Education Program"; here, "Punjab" refers to the state in northern India, not the Punjabi Wikimedia User Group. Thank you. --Jagseer S Sidhu (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Grant Application has not been successful

Hello @Jagseer S Sidhu,

Thank you for your rapid fund application and for taking time to respond to the follow-up questions.

Your grant application has not been approved at this time. In addition to the South Asia Committee review, your application was also reviewed by representatives from the Community Programmes and Movement Communications team.

While I understand the news may be disappointing, here are some recommendations that you could consider for a future application:

• Stronger and more sustainable wikimedia community engagement;
• Consider adding a period of review and feedback that will help you and the schools you are working with understand the skills the students have acquired through the program;
• Consider working with Reading Wikipedia in the Classroom certified trainer;
• If you require peer support, consider reaching out to Wikipedia and Education Usergroup or to the the Wikimedia Education team for more technical support;
• To strengthen the learning and evaluation segment of the grant, the following resources may also be helpful. Grants:Knowledge Sharing/Connect/Resources#Methods and tools for qualitative evaluation; Grants:Knowledge Sharing/Connect/Resources#Defining learning and evaluation plans

We hope you will continue to contribute to the Wikimedia movement and look forward to connecting again if you wish to explore other ideas for projects.

Regards, Jacqueline on behalf of SA regional funds committee JChen (WMF) (talk) 03:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your response Jacqueline. I appreciate your time and efforts to review the application. Regards - -Jagseer S Sidhu (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Jagseer S Sidhu,

Let's continue to keep in close contact and when you have another project idea, feel free to reach out. Thank you.

Regards,

Jacqueline JChen (WMF) (talk) 05:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Queries to understand the process

Hi Again Jacqueline

I have a few queries to help prepare for the future:

1. If any user from the community signs up for a project, would it not be considered as "Community Engagement"? In this case, two users have signed up for online participation. see here
2. Even though this is an "Individual Project" with a relevant and experienced team of Wikimedians, does it still require participation from the local "User Group"? Are the other team members not considered as Wikimedia community members?
3. Since this is an "Individual Project" and not community-led, does it still require participation from the local community?
4. If the local community chooses not to participate in a project for any reason, does it prevent someone from proposing and pursuing the project independently?
5. Are Individual initiatives not acceptable?

I have been running this project since August 2023 and am deeply invested in its success. Please understand that the decision will not only impact the project but also the students involved, who have the potential to become future Wikimedians. I request you to consider these queries and re-evaluate the application. Regards -Jagseer S Sidhu (talk) 05:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Jagseer S Sidhu,

We have connected via email to schedule a call.

Closing the loop on this.

Regards,

Jacqueline JChen (WMF) (talk) 06:10, 15 March 2024 (UTC)