Grants talk:Project/Rapid/Celestinesucess/Twi Wikipedia Translatathon/Report

Concerns about articles

Hello Celestinesucess, first of all thanks for organizing this translatathon and adding contents on the Twi Wikipedia. I however have some misgivings since I feel you disregarded some suggestions I offered which I believe would have made this project a better one. Reading your report I gather that you still had at least 15 participants at each event yet you were unable to translate 50 articles(translathaton ie even eaiser than edit-a-thon because in this regard the content and references already existed). I also find it regrettable that you are now saying you will involve tertiary students of Twi in future. This was something I suggetsed clealrly that you involve at least one native speaker of Twi who could read and write. I realized you didn't involve any native speaker. I painstakingly went through most of the articles you translated and this is what I found;

1. Most of the articles you translated had no reference or citations. As an experienced Wikipedian you should know how grievous article without referencing is since it is a pillar of Wikipedia. You will get away with this on the Twi Wikipedia because there are no admins but this should have been done because you were just translating articles which already existed and had references.
2. I found a lot of letters not in the Twi alphabets in most of the articles. I don't think you can find French letters like(Ç) on the English Wikipedia. In translation you are supposed to convert letters too into what exist in that language. To find letters like C,J,Q,V and Z on the Twi Wikipedia is very unpardonable.
3. Again most of the titles were in English. This also defeats the purpose of this whole project because your aim of organizing this project was to promote the use of local languages and you don't do this by still superimposing English on the local language. Sherifatu could have been written in Twi as Hyerifatu since there is no sh digraph in Twi and there countless examples like these I do not want to go through. I mean how can you write February on Twi Wikipedia?
4. I still found a lot of preventable English words in most of the articles. And most of these words could have been easily translated in Twi but you just chose to just either put them in parentheses or inverted commas.

In the end I will say content were added, but were they quality? Like I said in my earlier submission, the Twi Wikipedia is very crucial, it lacks a lot of editors and so we must do due diligence when working on it. Yes we need to expand it but we need to be cautious so that we don't rather do more harm than good. Because this will only frustrate the few editors.This is why I requested you get at least one experienced native speakers who could have been a resource person. I will however take the time and efforts to make all the necessary corrections on all these articles. But please don't give editors like myself such stress in future.

Further comments

1. How is it that in the approved budget there were line items for venue, printing and social media marketing, however none of these is captured in your expenses yet there was no remaining funds?
2. Also how did the budgetary allocation for the 5-team member( which I believe was too large looking at the nature of the project and members who couldn't even edit Twi) jump from 800 GHS to 1080?
3. Was User:Nkansahrexford involved anyway in this project?
4. Could you please share with me the 19 new accounts created with their permission? We need to get more editors on Twi Wikipedia.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a gatekeeper in the movement, I only have interest on issues related to Africa especially in Ghana. Again Twi is my native language and I have a great interest in whatever happens around this. Please take my comments in good faith since they are geared towards building a better community. --Rberchie (talk) 14:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Response to User Rberchie

Thank you so much for your comments User:Rberchie. You have every right to judge the work we did. However, I commend my team and I for the work done so far although, I won't say it was perfect. But as a first of it's kind, I think we did great. I believe, all the big wiki's we have today started small, allowing room for small mistakes, especially in a country where very few write in Twi, although marjority speak it. Yes we got about five native speakers to help with the translation, out of these five, Jemima Antwi is one of them. She studied Twi and worked as a Teaching Assistant in Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology. She was present at all events to help participants with the the translation, although she has no laptop. Due to the long delay in the grant approval, the remaining could not participate.

User:Nkansahrexford helped with translation of one article. But due to the delay in the grant request, we lost contacts and I thought he was busy with something else.

User:Amuzujoe is good with photography and he has a camera and Mustapha Olasunkanmi is a graphics designer, since we could not pay for their service, we saw it needful to add them to the team so they could contribute with their skills.

You can find the list of articles with the users on this page

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Celestinesucess/Twi_Wikipedia_Translatathon/_List_of_articles_to_be_Translated

--Celestinesucess (talk) 06:24, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Celestinesucess I didn't say I was expecting a perfect work, my point was you don't create an article without citation this is basic thing. Also like I mentioned on the grant page before the project, you superimposed English on Twi Wikipedia. There were a lot of things which could easily be translated in Twi but were not because there wasn't any native speaker or proficient Twi writer. These only make the work difficult for the few editors. And these were clearly avoidable.

Concerning User:Nkansahrexford I do not understand why you lost contact with him because I understand he is in Ghana, reachable via email and phone. Did you contact him and he said he was busy or have lost interest? I was somehow convinced if he was deeply involved some of these errors could have been avoided. I do not see how a photographer and a graphic designer were best fit for the team as opposed to an experienced Twi editor when your focus was improving and promoting content in Twi.

Lastly you still didn't answer my question on the financials. From your budget there were line items for venue, social media management etc but these were not captured in your report yet there were no funds left. And then again, in the same budget the allocation for your 5 member team(which I believe was superflous since none really played any pivotal role that will churn out content on the Twi Wikipedia) was 800 however in your report it was 1080 Cedis. Was this sanctioned? I honestly believe giving transportation to volunteers within Accra when an event is not a good practice and also not sustainable. Does it mean if you organize a future edit-a-thon and you don't give volunteers transport they won't come?

--Rberchie (talk) 18:34, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Additional Response to Rberchie

Rberchie thank you once again for your comments. Adding citations to articles may be a basic thing to you an experienced editor but not to newbies. We excluded the citations from the articles because, its quite tricky adding references using the content translator or edit sources. Unlike in English Wikipedia, even I am unable to cite using the visual editor. And I tried using edit source to add some references but it didn't turn out great so in order not to do a messy work, we excluded the citations for now. But I am hoping to learn how to cite articles well on Twi Wikipedia from Amir at this year's Wikimania.

Concerning the financials, All team members played a pivotal role to the success of this project, some helped with the provision and arrangement of logistics, others graphics, others photography and others with getting participants who could help with the translation of articles. Like I stated before, we had to manage the funds we had in such a way that the project will be a success and hence some items that we budgeted for(venue, social media management,etc) we managed to acquire them for for free and used to funds allotted for them to cover other expenses.

Concerning User:Nkansahrexford Before the grant got approved we were already working together, he helped with the translation of some articles. I sent him a couple of messages after the grant was approved but had no response.It was after the project that he reached out to me on telegram. I guess I should have tried a different other means to reach him which I regret. But not hearing from him made me assume he was busy with something else.Celestinesucess (talk) 21:38, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Celestinesucess the rules for citation is explicit, and there are no separate rules for newbies or experienced editors. It is articles should be verifiable. Why do new articles get deleted on English and other Wikipedia for lack of citations? Would you have left out these citations if it was English Wikipedia? As a trainer I think you should have thought the newbies that we don't create articles without citations. I don't also seem to get what you are talking about. The translation tool is very simple and you don't need to do anything once you begin translating it automatically adds the references on the existing article and you don't need to go to Wikimania.

Which other expenses did you use the allotted funds to cover? Were they approved by the grant manager? I also see miscellaneous in your report didn't this cover the other incidental expenses? You presented a budget which was deemed enough for this project so where did the other expenses come from?You even spent more than you allotted for volunteers. This is wrong in principle, if you organize a project you have to follow your budget in your grant, if there are remaining funds you either send them back or ask for reapplication, you don't use them for other expenses which were not even captured in your budget.

Rberchie (talk) 16:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

General Comment

I am commenting here not as a Twi speaker or a Ghanian but as someone whose works in the last 3 years have focused on improving similar small language Wikipedia, the yo:wiki. I understand the concerns raised by Rberchie about contents quality and lack of involvement of native speakers of Twi language in this project. The rule of thumb is " Do not organize an edit-a-thon in local language without native speakers who can write correctly in those languages". You cannot organize a successful edit-a-thon in a language like Twi without the involvement of native speakers. The native speakers don't necessarily have to be Wikipedia veterans or experienced Wikipedia editors but people who understand the language and can guide translators who may be experienced Wikipedia editors (and not necessarily native speakers) on how to write correctly. The experienced Wikipedians are to help with citations, formatting, Wikipedia manual of styles (MOS), etc. Celestinesuccess response to User:Rberchie suggests that she needs to gain enough experience in Wikipedia editing and edit-a-thon/workshop organizing before leading any further training.  Rberchie, your concerns are valid but I honestly think you are too harsh in expressing them. That is not necessary, my friend. I believed Celestinesuccess would review your concerns and avoid repeating similar mistakes in the future. If you are not too busy, you could help with sourcing the unsourced articles. Friends, let's get back to work and allow the designated WMF staff to review this report and take a final decision. Merry Christmas, everyone.T Cells^Talk 15:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Feedback and Report Accepted

Hello all, thank you for your feedback, I apologize for an unacceptably long delay in the reviewing process.

Dear Rberchie, thanks so much for raising your concerns about this project. I share most of them, and understand that you care about the quality of created content in Twi. I am sure that Celestinesucess has learnt a lot from this project and your feedback, and will try to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. She is a dedicated Wikimedian and has done lots of valuable work for the Wikimedia Movement.

Dear Celestinesucess, thanks for your work on this project and for submitting this report. I’m sure you have already taken into consideration the feedback by Raphael. Anyways, I have reviewed your report and expense documents and would like to accept them with the following comments and suggestions:

• Please communicate any changes to your budget to WMF in advance. Per the Rapid Grant guidelines, you need to receive our approval before making any changes.
• When working with small or indigenous languages, please be more sensitive and consult with native speakers in advance. Have at least some experienced language speakers, who will support you throughout the event and assess the language proficiency of participants.
• Please be more attentive to the quality of created content, including to the citations and reliable sources. I’m suggesting this by realizing that in the case of emerging Wikimedia projects, it is sometimes quite difficult to ensure and monitor the quality of articles.

Thanks again for your work for the movement! I am wishing you all the best for your future projects.

Dear T Cells, I also would like to thank you for your sensitive feedback. I really appreciate it.

Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 13:01, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

@DSaroyan (WMF): thank you so much for finally reviewing this report and thank you to Rberchie and T Cells for your feeback. I will do well to remember all the lessons learnt from this project and make good use of them in future projects.Celestinesucess (talk) 13:26, 22 October 2020 (UTC)