Grants talk:Project/Rapid/Gbagi Natives Photowalk

Questions and Feedbacks

Hello Chuks and thanks for submitting this grant request. I'd like to ask a few question and offer some suggestions prior to WMF's program officer's review.

1. Could you please provide a link to or list the cultural sites in Ezeagu that you want to photograph?
2. Why are these sites so important to merit a separate photowalks rather than taking advantage of the numerous existing photography contests runs by the community to cover them? For example, this Ezeagu adornment and this one covered by Wiki Loves Africa, and This Ezeagu Masquerade, this Ezeagu Waterfalls covered by Wiki Loves Love just to mention few.
3. Do you already have the list of articles where the images collected would be used? Can you provide a link to them?
4. I see that your measure of success is to upload 200 photos. I don't think it makes sense to spend 1864 USD to upload 200 photos. This is almost 10USD per photo. That's too expensive. Is there a possibility for you to revise this measure of success?
5. Your 4th goal is to "improve the quality of photographs that are uploaded to commons". How did you want to achieve this?
6. You have less than 50 edits on Commons. Why did you think you have the experienced to lead this project?

Finally, may I suggest that you take advantage of Wiki Loves Monument or Wiki Loves Earth 2020 to photograph these sites? Thank you.

T Cells^Talk 21:30, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello T Cells, thanks for your questions. This proposal was formerly to do a photowalk around Ezeagu however i have changed it to cover Gbagi native settlement which is located within Abuja, Niger and some part of Kaduna state. However some of your questions on the former proposal are still relevant to the current proposal and i answer as follows;

1. I do not have a list of the different cultural sites, religious sites, natural scenes e.t.c of the Gbagi native people that we will cover in the photowalk. This areas are scatters in their different native settlement and cannot easily be named or listed, however some natives will guide and lead us to these places so that we can cover them in the photowalk.
2. I have not participated in any of the photography content you talked about, however, i know that these places we tend to cover in the Gbagi native settlement are not in wikicommons as i have checked. I believe that those pictures will showcase a good part of the traditional and culture of a part of Nigeria and therefore will be good to be included in wikicommons.
3. I do not have a list of articles where the images will be used. I thought the idea of wikicommons is to provide quality pictures or videos so that it will be free and available for anybody to use it anytime in the future. So what i am doing is the provide the pictures so that people can use it both in wikipedia and outside wikipedia whenever they need to use it.
4. I think you are right that i should increase the number of pictures. What i was planning was to put in wikicommons only the best pictures. However, many hundreds of photos will be taken in the photowalk. I have now increased my measures of success to 320 pictures.
5. On your question about my target to improve quality of photographs that will be uploaded to commons, and like i said before, i had earlier planned to only put the best of the pictures. we also intend to call a seasoned photographer to talk to us about photography which will improve the quality of our work.
6. I have other experienced wiki editors that will participate and guide in the project. Besides i have edited other wiki projects and wikicommons is not a difficult project to execute. I apply that this project be approved.

Thank you.

--Chuks Zilo (talk) 18:09, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

You wrote This areas are scatters in their different native settlement and cannot easily be named or listed,. I do not see how places like these are realistically useful for educational purposes per COM:NOTUSED and I do not see any emergency reasons to photograph these places. These photos aren't going to be used on any Wikipedia article and the chance that people would write about these places is almost impossible per your assertion bolded above.

Your response does not adequately address my concerns and you have failed to establish why it is important to devote movement resources to add these photos to Commons. T Cells^Talk 18:38, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks T Cells for your quick response. Thanks also for referring me to COM:NOTUSED. It has made me to understand better the use of wiki commons. Unfortunately, i still do not agree with you that the photos to be collected in this project aren't going to be used on any Wikipedia article and the chance that people would write about these places is almost impossible. The Gbagi people are the original settlers in the present day Abuja which is the Federal Capital Territory of Nigeria. Some Gbagi people were relocated outside what is not called Wuse District and Gariki District in FCT Abuja. However, some Gbagi settlements were not resettled which are the areas we are going to cover in this project. As we speak, there are discussions on the development plan of FCT Abuja on whether those native settlements should be touched on not. This remaining relics of the original inhabitants of FCT Abuja is a major part of the history of the FCT Abuja, the capital of Nigeria. I am sure you have not gone to these areas hence your present opinion. Obviously, pictures to be collected from these areas and preserved in wiki commons will certainly be used in any article about Nigeria and its capital. This is why if you have read the wiki commons rules that you cited closely, you would have seen that these pictures qualify for educational purposes as defined in the area you referred me to. Secondly you said that I do not see any emergency reasons to photograph these places. While there may not be any present emergency, if the Federal Capital Territory Administration decides to further relocate some of these areas, the natural and traditional scenery will be lost for ever. I am of the strong view that these relics should be preserved. Once again, thank you for your comments and concerns and i am sorry for not convincing you in this regard.--Chuks Zilo (talk) 21:53, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments from WMF

Hello all!

Dear T Cells, as always, thank you so much for your useful feedback and raised concerns. I share your concerns and will try to work with the grantee to address most of them.

Dear Chuks Zilo, thank you for submitting this Rapid Grant request. We have reviewed the grant application and discussion and have some requests and questions that we hope will resolve most of the issues.

• While I think that there should be no emergency reasons to document different places and upload the photos to Wikimedia Commons, I agree that these photos should have encyclopedic and educational significance and be useful for other Wikimedia projects aside from Wikimedia Commons. For this reason, we request that you prepare a list of objects you plan to document, as well as a list of Wikipedia articles where the images may be used. These lists do not need to be comprehensive and include all objects, but they need to reflect the encyclopedic significance of the intended photowalk.
• You can prepare these lists as subpages to the grant page or in other preferred ways. Please put their links into the proposal page after creation.
• When preparing the lists, please talk to the Gbagi native people to find out what they want you to document. We think that it is really important to consider natives’ perspectives before going to a photowalk. Additionally, please find out any details about the objects; this will help you to list and name the objects and images afterwards.
• Who will participate in your photowalk? Are you planning to announce an open call of participants?
• What will 25 USD include for a single meal? Are you planning to organize the photowalk for 3 full days and provide meals three times during the day? I do not have a clear understanding of the food and drink prices in Nigeria, but I think 25 USD for a single meal seems overpriced.
• What will the Miscellaneous expenses cover? Could you provide a detailed breakdown?
• Could you please add the usernames of the experienced editors who will be supporting you during the event?

Please note that if we can not see the encyclopedic significance of the project when we have the lists of objects and articles, we may consider not funding this request. Looking forward to your responses. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 12:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello DSaroyan (WMF), Thank you for your response.

• I have reviewed the questions you asked and i don't think i will be able to provide a list of articles or links where these images will be used. I also did not know that to upload photos in wikicommons, a link or list of articles where the photos will be used should be provided or identified. Does this also mean that if i was to do this project during the Wiki loves Africa or Wiki loves Earth as T Cells suggested, i would have to provide links and articles where the photos will be used?. It appears to me now that i do not fully understand the rules of wikicommons. I intend to take some time to read it. In the circumstance, i believe that the best thing for me to do is to withdraw this application for grant. Please allow me to withdraw this application. I thank you and T Cells for all the discussion and guidance.

--Chuks Zilo (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello Chuks Zilo, I'm sorry to learn that you decided to withdraw your grant request. Yes, you need to show in your application that you have a clear plan of reaching your targets, even if the project will be organized during the Wiki Loves Africa or other contest. When you plan to take and upload 320 photos and use 50 on other Wikimedia projects, you also need to have some understanding of which objects will be photographed and which articles illustrated. Given your decision, I'm marking your grant request as withdrawn. Feel free to resubmit it when you have a clearer understanding of what the outcomes of the projects will be. Best regards, DSaroyan (WMF) (talk) 09:02, 7 September 2020 (UTC)