IRC office hours/Office hours 2009-11-12

Nov 12 09:00:16 <cary> Good morning all!
Nov 12 09:00:25 <dungodung> and good day/evening
Nov 12 09:00:34 <cary> Today's guest is Naoko Komura, head of the Stanton Usability Project
Nov 12 09:00:35 <cary> For those that don't know, you can read about the Stanton Usability project here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/StantonGrantQA
Nov 12 09:00:36 <nkomura> hi everyone
Nov 12 09:00:47 <cary> nkomura, is Naoko if it isn't obvious :)
Nov 12 09:00:57 <cary> nkomura is going to give an overview and then we'll go right into questions.
Nov 12 09:01:28 <nkomura> i'd like to start off by sharing the current status
Nov 12 09:01:47 <nkomura> as you all know the beta opt-in is ongoing
Nov 12 09:01:58 <nkomura> we have about 300,000 people tried out beta
Nov 12 09:02:15 <nkomura> and roughly 77% people continue using it
Nov 12 09:02:38 <nkomura> 77% is the average of all WM projects in all languages
Nov 12 09:02:45 * philippe|away s'appelle maintenant Philippe|Wiki
Nov 12 09:02:59 <nkomura> retention rate for English Wikipedia is about 86%
Nov 12 09:03:15 <nkomura> in terms of releases, Acai and Bbaco are staged as part of the beta
Nov 12 09:03:31 <nkomura> users see all Acai features as default when opt-in beta
Nov 12 09:04:00 <nkomura> Babaco features such as navigable table of contents and dialogues need to be turned on from user preference
Nov 12 09:04:26 <nkomura> we are preparing for the beta enhancements which should be released as early as next week
Nov 12 09:04:40 <nkomura> enhancements are moving watch as a stand alone tab
Nov 12 09:05:07 <nkomura> and tabs will collapse when the screen estate is smaller or words for tabs stretch the width
Nov 12 09:05:20 <nkomura> the team is working on the citron release which is scheduled for January
Nov 12 09:05:31 <nkomura> the main features of citron release is template/content folding
Nov 12 09:05:39 <nkomura> other features are being discussed
Nov 12 09:06:05 <nkomura> the mirrors of the upcoming release can be seen in prototype sites
Nov 12 09:06:06 <nkomura> http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Prototype
Nov 12 09:06:23 <nkomura> that's it for the quick summary
Nov 12 09:06:25 <nkomura> back to cary
Nov 12 09:06:44 <cary> okay, we'll open it up for questions now
Nov 12 09:06:46 <cary> Please remember
Nov 12 09:06:54 <cary> Preface any questions with QUESTION:
Nov 12 09:06:58 <cary> for ease of reading
Nov 12 09:07:11 <cary> also, please keep idle chatter to #wikimedia-office-talk
Nov 12 09:07:21 <Philippe|Wiki> Question: can u explain content folding?
Nov 12 09:07:32 <nkomura> sure
Nov 12 09:07:36 <GerardM-> QUESTION ... is there a relation between the localisation and the retention of Beta users ?
Nov 12 09:07:52 <nkomura> so i will start with Philippe|Wiki's question
Nov 12 09:08:07 <nkomura> content folding is to collapse templates in editing interface
Nov 12 09:08:12 <Philippe|Wiki> I'm a tech idiot. :)
Nov 12 09:08:19 <nkomura> and make a form like interface
Nov 12 09:08:53 <nkomura> as you all have experienced, editing contents inside infobox is not easy and overwhelming
Nov 12 09:09:11 <Philippe|Wiki> ah ok. Thanks
Nov 12 09:09:42 <nkomura> WRT GerardM-'s question
Nov 12 09:09:59 <cary> <GerardM-> QUESTION ... is there a relation between the localisation and the retention of Beta users ?
Nov 12 09:10:21 <nkomura> let me rephrase your question and see if i understand your question correctly
Nov 12 09:10:48 <nkomura> is your question if the project is more localized, do we see more beta opt-in?
Nov 12 09:10:58 <GerardM-> indeed
Nov 12 09:11:08 <GerardM-> particularly retention
Nov 12 09:11:48 <nkomura> for the top ten most active languages, the localization is almost one hundred percent
Nov 12 09:11:56 <nkomura> so there isn't much influence there
Nov 12 09:12:18 <nkomura> but smaller language wiki's definitely we see that
Nov 12 09:12:28 <nkomura> but we have not run correlation analysis though
Nov 12 09:12:37 <AlexandrDmitri> QUESTION: I know en-Wikinews has formally adopted the new interface; have any other projects done the same ?
Nov 12 09:14:02 <nkomura> en-wikinews community was the first who actively made consensus decision about making the usability interface as default
Nov 12 09:14:21 <Philippe|Wiki> Shameless plug: strategy wiki has. :). Not a project in that sense tho.
Nov 12 09:14:31 <RoanKattouw> Same goes for usability wiki
Nov 12 09:14:46 <nkomura> i was going to get to that Philippe|Wiki :)
Nov 12 09:14:59 <Philippe|Wiki> I will hush. :)
Nov 12 09:15:20 <nkomura> actually strategy was the earlier adopter than en.wikinews
Nov 12 09:15:37 <nkomura> thanks to eugine and Philippe|Wiki's bold move ;)
Nov 12 09:16:06 <nkomura> i have a question to AlexandrDmitri
Nov 12 09:16:15 <AlexandrDmitri> OK
Nov 12 09:16:20 <Mentifisto> some people don't like the new interface
Nov 12 09:16:25 <nkomura> QUESTION: Which language/wiki project are you active in?
Nov 12 09:17:13 <AlexandrDmitri> en-wikipedia and en-wikinews redominantly; occasionally fr-wikipedia to edit and de-wikipedia and ru-wikipedia to read
Nov 12 09:17:59 <nkomura> the beta retention in fr.wp and de.wp are not so great
Nov 12 09:18:08 <nkomura> i wonder if you have any insights to that
Nov 12 09:18:22 <nkomura> Mentifisto: I will come back to you in a few
Nov 12 09:18:33 <AlexandrDmitri> Not this very second, but I would be willing to ask
Nov 12 09:18:50 <nkomura> that'd be great
Nov 12 09:19:19 <nkomura> at least the new feature "cascading tabs" will mitigate the overlapping tab experience german users have been experiencing
Nov 12 09:19:30 <nkomura> Mentifisto: will you share your insights?
Nov 12 09:20:25 <Bodnotbod> QUESTION: Do you keep an eye on the Strategy Wiki? Or will you wait awhile until things settle down a bit more?
Nov 12 09:20:27 <cary> next question
Nov 12 09:20:30 <cary> thanks Bodnotbod
Nov 12 09:22:19 <nkomura> hi Bodnotbod. I am not active in keeping up with what's going on in strategy wiki, but philippe|wiki pings me to the topic I should be aware of (thanks philippe|wiki)
Nov 12 09:22:26 <philippe|wiki> :)
Nov 12 09:22:51 <Bodnotbod> OK, thanks nkomura. Good job Philippe :o)
Nov 12 09:23:05 <nkomura> i spend a lot more time reading the feedback and replying to the comments to usability wiki
Nov 12 09:23:15 <cary> SMP_ca, you have a question, I understand?
Nov 12 09:25:03 <SMP_ca> yes: the beta project asks for users feedback in many places, how do you manage the different languages of this feedback?
Nov 12 09:25:14 <SMP_ca> maybe it's just me that I did not read something :-)
Nov 12 09:25:19 <nkomura> SMP_ca: hi
Nov 12 09:25:32 <nkomura> i'll ask howiefung to answer that question
Nov 12 09:25:39 <howiefung> hello everyone
Nov 12 09:25:50 <howiefung> so yes, we do get feedback in the different languages
Nov 12 09:26:11 <nkomura> how is the product consultant who is working on beta feedback analysis by the way
Nov 12 09:26:11 * cary donne la parole à howiefung
Nov 12 09:26:18 <howiefung> right now, we've been using machine translation to get a first cut of the feedback
Nov 12 09:26:43 <howiefung> we've been using Google's translate API and so far it's been giving us a pretty good start
Nov 12 09:27:00 <howiefung> using the Google translation we can get a pretty good sense of what users are saying in the different languages
Nov 12 09:27:07 <howiefung> but it's not perfect
Nov 12 09:27:31 <howiefung> there are certainly cases where the translations are a little rough
Nov 12 09:27:57 <howiefung> but right now, we're looking for comments that come up over and over again
Nov 12 09:28:36 <howiefung> for example, the google translations helped us learn that the beta renders fonts really small in jawiki
Nov 12 09:29:12 <howiefung> we've been verifying the quality of the machine translations with people here at the foundation
Nov 12 09:29:31 <howiefung> but if anyone else can help with that, we'd really appreciate it :)
Nov 12 09:29:50 <nkomura> we are planning to publish the comments and overall stats very soon
Nov 12 09:30:15 <nkomura> and google translation AIP integration work was done by nimish gauram
Nov 12 09:30:18 <eia> (psst, could someone post a link to the agenda in the topic?)
Nov 12 09:30:25 <nkomura> who just entered the room
Nov 12 09:30:26 * cary donne l'état d'opérateur de canal à nimish_g
Nov 12 09:30:48 <cary> eia: There is no agenda.
Nov 12 09:30:56 <nimish_g> hello
Nov 12 09:31:26 <nkomura> nimish_g: i was giving you credit for google translation integration work you have done for the survey analysis
Nov 12 09:32:12 <nkomura> we are ready for next question
Nov 12 09:32:29 <nkomura> unless others have comments/questions about the beta survey
Nov 12 09:32:55 <fajro> Have you seen the work of http://apertium.org They have a wikipedia translator tool
Nov 12 09:32:58 <fajro> ?
Nov 12 09:33:40 <Bodnotbod> QUESTION: will the absence of Brion Vibber cause any slow-down in usability improvement/innovation over the next few months?
Nov 12 09:33:43 <nkomura> we were not aware of that tool
Nov 12 09:33:43 <cary> That would be a QUESTION: from fajro
Nov 12 09:33:46 <howiefung> no, i haven't. but it looks very interesting
Nov 12 09:34:05 <cary> Bodnotbod, thank you, I'll put your question in the queue.
Nov 12 09:34:11 <nkomura> fajro: how's the quality of translation compared to google translation?
Nov 12 09:34:22 <fajro> Depends on the language
Nov 12 09:34:35 <fajro> they have languages that goole don't
Nov 12 09:34:50 <nkomura> fajro: that's great
Nov 12 09:35:28 * nkomura bookmarks the page
Nov 12 09:35:50 <fajro> and it's Open Source
Nov 12 09:36:19 <nkomura> good to know
Nov 12 09:36:26 <cary> <Bodnotbod> QUESTION: will the absence of Brion Vibber cause any slow-down in usability improvement/innovation over the next few months?
Nov 12 09:36:47 <nkomura> yes, i'm afraid so
Nov 12 09:36:57 <cary> however, we have a cardboard cutout
Nov 12 09:37:19 * brion thinks the usability dudes have been doing a fine job innovating without him sitting next to them for months already :)
Nov 12 09:37:26 <nkomura> brion has been advising and directing us in many ways not only in technology
Nov 12 09:37:43 * cary donne la parole à nimish_g_
Nov 12 09:37:50 * cary enlève son état d'opérateur de canal à nimish_g
Nov 12 09:38:41 <Bodnotbod> lol, Cary :o) OK, fair enough, I figured it would have an impact. Didn't realise Brion was here with us :o)
Nov 12 09:38:51 <nkomura> brion is willing and has been spending time with us on code review and other advices
Nov 12 09:38:56 <RoanKattouw> One of the time-bound things Brion's been doing for us is reviewing our code so it can be deployed. Brion's absence means someone else has to review our code (Tim, in theory, but in practice brion still does it), but that's true for all software updates
Nov 12 09:40:14 * cary donne la parole à RoanKattouw
Nov 12 09:40:28 <fajro> QUESTION: What do you think of supporting initiatives like the "Open Share Icon" and the "Language Icon" to improve usability. http://www.openshareicons.com/ http://www.languageicon.org/
Nov 12 09:41:21 <cary> I'm going to queue up a question for after fajro's
Nov 12 09:41:22 <cary> QUESTION: Is there any way for people to get in touch with you on IRC and ask questions when you're not doing office hours?
Nov 12 09:41:59 <nkomura> fajro: I think it is a great idea
Nov 12 09:42:15 <nkomura> we actively use open source icons such as tango and gnome
Nov 12 09:42:23 <RoanKattouw> cary: Yes, we're in #wikipedia_usability pretty much all the time
Nov 12 09:42:23 <nkomura> http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery
Nov 12 09:42:30 <GerardM-> what is the ¨language icon¨
Nov 12 09:42:31 <nkomura> http://www.gnome.org/
Nov 12 09:42:54 <fajro> An alternative to flags in language menus
Nov 12 09:43:07 <GerardM-> flags ARE horrible
Nov 12 09:43:11 * RoanKattouw s'appelle maintenant RoanKattouw_away
Nov 12 09:43:13 <GerardM-> do you have an URL ?
Nov 12 09:43:34 <fajro> http://www.languageicon.org/
Nov 12 09:43:57 <nkomura> fajro: however our focus has been the usability of editing experience for novice users
Nov 12 09:44:02 <Bodnotbod> The language icon looks very... wello, it's not a design classic, I'll put it that way.
Nov 12 09:44:09 <Bodnotbod> *well
Nov 12 09:44:37 <dungodung> QUESTION: I've been hearing from some users of Serbian projects that some common templates (like coordinates, featured article stars etc) pose a problem (as in, they can't be done without too much hacking) within the beta. Are there plans to accommodate this concern?
Nov 12 09:44:40 <nkomura> i think language display affects more for readers than editors
Nov 12 09:45:01 <GerardM-> language icon only supports 488 icons ... not good enough
Nov 12 09:45:37 <nkomura> and i'm not sure color schema is explicit enough to identify each laguage
Nov 12 09:45:54 * nkomura bookmarking language icon pages for future references
Nov 12 09:45:56 <GerardM-> there are over 7000 languages
Nov 12 09:46:05 <cary> GerardM-, I think it simply means "language"
Nov 12 09:46:19 <cary> as in, "select language" or "switch language"
Nov 12 09:46:27 <SMP_ca> ah ok
Nov 12 09:46:47 <GerardM-> why then 488 varieties ?
Nov 12 09:46:53 <Bodnotbod> Yes, I get the impression it's not an icon per language... I thought it might just start-up a drop-down menu of options or take you to choices rather than represent one choice among many.
Nov 12 09:46:58 <cary> For different websites
Nov 12 09:47:02 <fajro> see the icon in http://apertium.org
Nov 12 09:47:03 <cary> to match your color scheme
Nov 12 09:47:33 <nkomura> http://www.languageicon.org/examples.php
Nov 12 09:47:40 <cary> See usage at the bottom
Nov 12 09:47:42 <nkomura> this page has examples of the usage
Nov 12 09:49:24 <GerardM-> ok \
Nov 12 09:49:38 <Tango42> QUESTION: Have you done/are you planning to do any detailed usability studies outside the San Francisco area?
Nov 12 09:50:51 <nkomura> our first usability study included remote participants
Nov 12 09:50:54 <nkomura> we reached out to different regions of the U.S.
Nov 12 09:51:25 <nkomura> second study we conducted in October was relatively small, and was conducted in San Francisco
Nov 12 09:51:48 <nkomura> the next one in March is likely to be the combination of SF and remote study
Nov 12 09:51:51 <Tango42> what form did the remote participation take?
Nov 12 09:52:08 <nkomura> do you mean the tool we used?
Nov 12 09:52:12 <Tango42> will the March one include international participants?
Nov 12 09:52:18 <Tango42> No, just generally what form did it take
Nov 12 09:52:39 <nkomura> it is the same as in-person study
Nov 12 09:52:41 <Tango42> questionaires? Someone going out there to sit with people? Recording their screen?
Nov 12 09:52:49 <nkomura> we have a set of tasks we ask participants to carry out
Nov 12 09:52:56 <nkomura> via interview style
Nov 12 09:53:11 <nkomura> we use web conference tool
Nov 12 09:53:39 <nkomura> so the moderator speaks to the participant through screen sharing and via phone
Nov 12 09:53:53 <nkomura> we are not sure about including international participants
Nov 12 09:54:19 <nkomura> we wanted to reach out to other parts of the world (still have to be english speaking countries due to our language limitation)
Nov 12 09:54:42 <nkomura> but the network bandwidth over web conferencing can be demanding
Nov 12 09:55:00 <nkomura> and the firm we work with were not comfortable committing to it
Nov 12 09:55:00 <Bodnotbod> QUESTION: One emerging theme on the Strategy Wiki is the desire to add 'social networking' features to Wikipedia (or at least improved inter-user communication facilities). This would obviously mean interface changes, possibly quite big changes. Does this news fill you with dread?
Nov 12 09:55:04 <GerardM-> QUESTION, how do you know about the effect on Wiktionary or Wikiversity ?
Nov 12 09:55:42 <Tango42> That's unfortunate. It seriously limits the usefulness of the project.
Nov 12 09:55:49 <nkomura> Bodnotbod: not at all
Nov 12 09:55:54 <nkomura> it is in our wish list
Nov 12 09:56:03 <Amgine> Question: Drupal engaged in an intensive lab usability study: http://drupal.org/node/204667 Is the usability study going to have similar physical/software metrics?
Nov 12 09:56:11 <nkomura> more interactive while editing or discussing is a great way for people to work together
Nov 12 09:56:17 <Bodnotbod> Ooh! That's interesting nkomura. Thanks.
Nov 12 09:56:22 <cary> Okay, three questions queued up. Please no more questions. Thanks.
Nov 12 09:56:37 <cary> we have time to answer the ones we have.
Nov 12 09:56:47 * nkomura reading Amgine's link
Nov 12 09:57:22 <nkomura> Amgine: are you mainly referring to eye-tracking method?
Nov 12 09:57:49 <Amgine> They did a number of subject metrics, including hand movements, skin temp, etc.
Nov 12 09:58:11 <nkomura> one sec Amgine
Nov 12 09:58:11 <Amgine> The full-on physical usability.
Nov 12 09:58:20 <nkomura> i missed the comment from Tango42
Nov 12 09:58:47 <nkomura> Tango42: there was a community member from Argentina whom i met @ Wikimania
Nov 12 09:58:56 <nkomura> he is willing to volunteer the usability study
Nov 12 09:59:04 <fajro> Who?
Nov 12 09:59:12 <Bodnotbod> Skin temp? Does this mean we can have a league table of Wikipedia's sweatiest editors? Can we rank articles according to their impact on blood pressure? :o)
Nov 12 09:59:26 * fajro is from argentina
Nov 12 09:59:37 <nkomura> so i am thinking of sharing the study method with him so that he can bring in the perspectives from spanish speaking regions
Nov 12 09:59:37 <Tango42> I expect chapters could be useful there. With your help they could probably organise some studies in their own countries.
Nov 12 09:59:52 <nkomura> fajro: i need to look up the name in my inbox
Nov 12 09:59:59 <GerardM-> Bodnotbod: you do not need to do many reviews in order to get a good indication what the issue is
Nov 12 10:00:12 <GerardM-> so no sweatiest palms templates
Nov 12 10:00:25 <cary> <GerardM-> QUESTION, how do you know about the effect on Wiktionary or Wikiversity ?
Nov 12 10:00:36 <fajro> this is a good one
Nov 12 10:00:37 <nkomura> Tango42: actually for multi-media usability study, we are conducting user interviews in france
Nov 12 10:00:51 <nkomura> mainly because the product manager now lives in france tho ;)
Nov 12 10:00:55 <GerardM-> Tango42: a local study makes not much sense when the software is not localised
Nov 12 10:01:13 <nkomura> GerardM-: wikimedia projects are localized
Nov 12 10:01:17 <Tango42> GerardM: Then surely the software needs to be localised...
Nov 12 10:01:36 <nkomura> k back to Amgine's question
Nov 12 10:01:39 <GerardM-> they are AND they need to be
Nov 12 10:02:03 <Amgine> nkomura: I believe GerardM-'s question is next.
Nov 12 10:02:27 <nkomura> we engaged the university in germany for potential eye-tracking study
Nov 12 10:02:31 <nkomura> take it back
Nov 12 10:02:39 <nkomura> k GerardM-'s question
Nov 12 10:02:57 <cary> <GerardM-> QUESTION, how do you know about the effect on Wiktionary or Wikiversity ?
Nov 12 10:02:57 <nkomura> we are not treating other projects differently at this moment
Nov 12 10:03:23 <nkomura> as our focus is on the editing experience
Nov 12 10:03:25 <GerardM-> is there a difference in retention ?
Nov 12 10:03:31 <nkomura> yes
Nov 12 10:03:54 <nkomura> GerardM-: howie is pulling up the data for you
Nov 12 10:04:25 <howiefung> enwikiversity: 93%
Nov 12 10:04:28 <nkomura> while waiting for the numbers, back to Amgine's question
Nov 12 10:04:44 <nkomura> eye tracking study is very expensive
Nov 12 10:04:51 <Amgine> Eyetracking with a DE university...
Nov 12 10:05:18 <nkomura> right, the study fund request came back outrageous number
Nov 12 10:05:24 <nkomura> and the impact is still debated
Nov 12 10:05:36 <nkomura> we had a conversation with the director of user experience at youtube
Nov 12 10:06:05 <nkomura> he told us that he would not incorporate eye tracking into their evaluation of interface
Nov 12 10:06:44 <nkomura> so in nutshell, we need to understand more what this kind of study will give us
Nov 12 10:06:55 <Amgine> <nods> Thanks!
Nov 12 10:06:56 <nkomura> for the phase of this project which end in March 2010
Nov 12 10:07:09 <nkomura> we are unlikely to introduce such study
Nov 12 10:07:12 <cary> If that's all
Nov 12 10:07:14 <nkomura> yw Amgine
Nov 12 10:07:28 <nkomura> so back to GerardM- question
Nov 12 10:07:30 <fajro> Wiktionary really needs better usability. I think something like the "Createplates" of Wikia or similar will work great there
Nov 12 10:07:35 <howiefung> wiktionary/wikiveristy numbers: enwikiversity: 93%, enwiktionary: 89%; dewikiversity: 80%; dewiktionary: 82%; eswikiversity: 97%; eswiktionary: 91%
Nov 12 10:07:57 <howiefung> but keep in mind these are off of a very small pool of beta users (a few hundred)
Nov 12 10:08:12 <nkomura> fajro: what does "Createplates" do?
Nov 12 10:08:20 <nkomura> will you send me a link of the extension?
Nov 12 10:08:25 <fajro> forms
Nov 12 10:08:26 <fajro> http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:CreatePlates
Nov 12 10:08:46 <fajro> I think Uniwiki did something similar
Nov 12 10:09:13 <Amgine> enWiktionary has something as well.
Nov 12 10:09:33 <nkomura> i see
Nov 12 10:09:57 <Bodnotbod> Thanks for chatting and all your hard work, nkomura (and associates)! Very interesting with regard to the YouTube people.
Nov 12 10:10:03 <nkomura> so this idea can be expanded to suggested templates based on the type of articles?
Nov 12 10:10:16 <Amgine> Yes.
Nov 12 10:10:42 <nkomura> will look into it
Nov 12 10:10:42 <Amgine> On en.Wiktionary the templates are based on the part of speech - noun, verb, etc.
Nov 12 10:10:50 <nkomura> right
Nov 12 10:11:02 <dungodung> can I repeat my Q? <dungodung> QUESTION: I've been hearing from some users of Serbian projects that some common templates (like coordinates, featured article stars etc) pose a problem (as in, they can't be done without too much hacking) within the beta. Are there plans to accommodate this concern?
Nov 12 10:11:05 <nkomura> so having a style makes more sense for wikitionary
Nov 12 10:11:42 <cary> dungodung, I'm sorry, I don't know how it got missed
Nov 12 10:12:20 <dungodung> that's ok
Nov 12 10:12:53 <nkomura> dungodung: our new features sometimes are not compatible with all user created gadgets
Nov 12 10:13:08 <nkomura> we try to share what's in pipeline as early as possible
Nov 12 10:13:26 <dungodung> yeah, but these are some rather popular templates ;)
Nov 12 10:13:56 <nkomura> right
Nov 12 10:14:01 <cary> growing pains
Nov 12 10:14:11 <dungodung> of course
Nov 12 10:14:23 <nkomura> we are available through #wikipedia_usability all the time
Nov 12 10:14:24 <dungodung> but there are plans to work on that, right?
Nov 12 10:14:29 <Platonides> vector using ids and classes different than monobook hurt being compatible...
Nov 12 10:14:41 <nkomura> so if there is a problem with popular gadgets, we would love to hear about it
Nov 12 10:15:00 <dungodung> cool, I'll direct people to go there
Nov 12 10:15:15 <cary> okay!
Nov 12 10:15:23 <dungodung> yeah, we should wrap
Nov 12 10:15:29 <cary> Thanks everybody
Nov 12 10:15:37 <cary> remember that #wikimedia-usability is always open
Nov 12 10:15:55 <nkomura> Thank you, everyone
Nov 12 10:15:56 <cary> Thank you nkomura
Nov 12 10:16:02 <nkomura> and cary for the moderation
Nov 12 10:16:08 <nkomura> it was great talking to you all