IRC office hours/Office hours 2012-04-05 (en)

[18:25:47] <Yaron> Hallo, alle!

[18:27:12] <Katie_WMDE> hallo Yaron :)

[18:28:29] <emijrp> go go go

[18:29:03] <joancreus> emijrp: hmm heute im deutsch! (i think i spelled this correctly... de-0.5)

[18:29:37] <Lydia_WMDE> hey everyone :)

[18:29:46] <mahadeva> hey

[18:29:51] <Lydia_WMDE> time for the first english wikidata office hour

[18:29:53] <Lydia_WMDE> \o/

[18:29:59] <Lydia_WMDE> who's here for the office hour?

[18:30:19] <emijrp> he, nobody

[18:30:30] <Lydia_WMDE> -.-

[18:30:30] <Denny_WMDE1> I am!

[18:30:34] <Lydia_WMDE> yay! :P

[18:30:38] -*- mahadeva logging this conversation, just in case

[18:30:40] <Katie_WMDE> yay!

[18:30:51] <Lydia_WMDE> mahadeva: i will publish logs later on meta

[18:30:57] <mahadeva> great

[18:31:08] -*- Lydia_WMDE pokes vHanda

[18:31:54] <Lydia_WMDE> ok 

[18:32:06] <Lydia_WMDE> so let's start with collecting some questions if anyone has any

[18:32:23] <Lydia_WMDE> i'll make a list if there are a few and then we can go through them one by one

[18:32:29] -*- jeremyb 

[18:33:03] <YairRand> how will wikidata work on the wikis' side of things?

[18:33:12] <Yaron> My first question is, how does it feel to be part of the future??

[18:33:41] <Lydia_WMDE> Yaron: it's the awesome!  :D

[18:33:45] <mahadeva> like being part of the present and the past

[18:34:04] <Lydia_WMDE> YairRand: on the list

[18:34:19] <Lydia_WMDE> anything else?

[18:34:28] <Lydia_WMDE> come on peoples :D don't be shy

[18:34:28] <Yaron> Cool, thanks for the answer, though I feel bad for having jumped the queue.

[18:34:48] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: hi! Thanks for your awesome faith in the project, I read your blog post. I hope we can fulfill at least some of the big expectations :)

[18:35:04] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: and hi, great to see you again!

[18:35:21] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand: can you be a bit more specific with your question, though?

[18:35:28] <Yaron> Hello! Great to see you as well.

[18:35:42] <Yaron> I have another question - what will be the arbitration process for modifying, and possibly deleting, facts? Will it be done via talk pages?

[18:35:54] <Lydia_WMDE> listed

[18:36:05] <mahadeva> Yaron, excellent question

[18:36:11] <YairRand> how will the various wikimedia wikis use the data from wikidata?

[18:36:18] <joancreus> i suggest flagged revs

[18:36:22] <joancreus> for non-logged-in usrs

[18:36:23] <Denny_WMDE> ah, ok, got it, YairRand

[18:36:26] <jeblad> Hi! Just lurking..

[18:36:26] <joancreus> or somthing like this

[18:36:28] <joancreus> *something

[18:36:34] <emijrp> consensus

[18:36:45] <Lydia_WMDE> joancreus: let's get to that once Denny_WMDE answered YairRand's question

[18:36:57] <Denny_WMDE> shall i start answering?

[18:37:00] <Lydia_WMDE> jep

[18:37:27] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand: there are different answers for the different phases

[18:37:35] <Denny_WMDE> the easiest one is in phase 1, language links

[18:37:56] <Denny_WMDE> in this case we will add an extension to the Wikipedias, that will query Wikidata for its language links

[18:38:05] <Denny_WMDE> and the Wikipedias will simply display the links

[18:38:13] <Denny_WMDE> there will be ways to locally override this

[18:38:26] <YairRand> automatically, or will some wikitext need to be added to the page to activate this?

[18:38:37] <Denny_WMDE> currently we envision automatic

[18:38:44] <Denny_WMDE> as it is expected to be the default

[18:38:48] <Lydia_WMDE> opt-out so to say

[18:38:56] <YairRand> I see

[18:39:04] <Denny_WMDE> but if a given language community doesnt like it, it can be changed

[18:39:10] <Denny_WMDE> we're prepared for both

[18:39:11] <emijrp> langlinks will work for all sister projects?

[18:39:23] <Denny_WMDE> we are currently targeting the wikipedias

[18:39:51] <Denny_WMDE> in phase 2 and 3, we need to add some syntax to query wikidata

[18:39:54] <YairRand> (I was hoping wiktionary could get languagelinks before the other wikis. wiktionary has a much simpler setup.)

[18:40:06] <Denny_WMDE> like a parserfunction that simply pulls in a value or sth

[18:40:10] <Denny_WMDE> but this needs to be designed still

[18:40:14] <YairRand> (ie no complicated, two articles to one page)

[18:40:16] <jeremyb> how is it simpler?

[18:40:19] <Lydia_WMDE> clarification: the main target of the initial wikidata development are the wikipedias - after that is done more is obviously possible

[18:40:26] <jeremyb> YairRand: sure about that?

[18:40:31] <YairRand> yes

[18:40:44] <YairRand> in fact, all interwikis are to pages with the same title

[18:40:45] <jeremyb> YairRand: how about "free"?

[18:41:15] <Denny_WMDE> with Wiktionary there is a somewhat different setup

[18:41:35] <Denny_WMDE> that requires seriously more thought than we had on Wiktionary

[18:41:36] <YairRand> take a look at the interwiki links for any wiktionary entry. all the same title.

[18:42:12] <Denny_WMDE> as said, we have not investigated that one. it is not in our scope for the first year of development.

[18:42:16] <Yaron> That's true - Wiktionary uses the literal string, while Wikipedia uses the meanings.

[18:42:52] <Denny_WMDE> OmegaWiki has, as far as i understand, worked a lot on making Wiktionary smarter

[18:43:09] <Denny_WMDE> that is one reason why we did not look into this more

[18:43:17] <Lydia_WMDE> we're kinda drifting ;-)

[18:43:19] <YairRand> omegawiki isn't a wikimedia project

[18:43:27] <Lydia_WMDE> is the original question answered?

[18:43:46] <emijrp> how many terabytes of bandwidth will be saved after shutting down all interwiki bots?

[18:43:47] <YairRand> how about after the first phase?

[18:44:03] <jeremyb> not very much i imagine

[18:44:08] <Denny_WMDE> the second phase will need to introduce some extra syntax to query wikidata

[18:44:18] <YairRand> parserfunction-like?

[18:44:22] <Denny_WMDE> maybe

[18:44:29] <MaxSem> what about vandalism resistance: who will be able to edit the centralised data? where it will happen, on a dedicated wiki? how people are supposed to notice if their article's wikidata has been vandalised?

[18:44:30] <Denny_WMDE> we don't know yet, that's one of our tasks to design

[18:44:42] <Katie_WMDE> or lua maybe

[18:44:43] <Denny_WMDE> it has to blend in with the work on the VisualEditor

[18:44:55] <Denny_WMDE> yep, lua would also be a nice option

[18:44:57] <Lydia_WMDE> MaxSem: i put that on the list

[18:45:10] <Denny_WMDE> it really depends, but the short one is: we do not know yet

[18:45:15] <Denny_WMDE> but some extra syntax for sure

[18:45:29] <Denny_WMDE> maybe parser-function style, that would be my baseline.

[18:45:29] <MaxSem> {{#ask:}}, hehe

[18:45:34] <Denny_WMDE> :)

[18:45:44] <Nikerabbit> what are the very first things we are going to see landing into master branch?

[18:45:47] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand, does this answer the question?

[18:45:53] <Lydia_WMDE> Nikerabbit: on the list

[18:46:00] <YairRand> yes, thank you

[18:46:12] <Denny_WMDE> great. thanks for the question.

[18:46:18] <Lydia_WMDE> alright

[18:46:19] <Daniel_WMDE> Nikerabbit: ContentHandler

[18:46:21] <Lydia_WMDE> next one is: <Yaron> I have another question - what will be the arbitration process for modifying, and possibly deleting, facts? Will it be done via talk pages?

[18:46:32] <emijrp> consensus

[18:46:41] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: that is a great question. and emijrp is right.

[18:46:44] <emijrp> next one

[18:46:47] <Yaron> :)

[18:47:05] <YairRand> ah, what about non-English speakers?

[18:47:07] <jeremyb> that's very closely connected to MaxSem

[18:47:08] <jeremyb> 05 16:44:29 < MaxSem> what about vandalism resistance: who will be able to edit the centralised data? where it will happen, on a dedicated wiki?  how people are supposed to notice if their article's wikidata has been vandalised?

[18:47:23] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: it really is up to the community

[18:47:29] <Denny_WMDE> the system will not be clever about this

[18:47:45] <Denny_WMDE> but we can and probably will go for a more fine-grained protection model

[18:47:59] <Denny_WMDE> does this answer the question, yaron?

[18:48:06] <Yaron> Denny_WMDE - sorry, I think everyone misunderstood my question; I'm asking about the technical facilites for such a discussion.

[18:48:14] <Denny_WMDE> discussion pages

[18:48:21] <Denny_WMDE> yes, i indeed misunderstood

[18:48:30] <Denny_WMDE> but simply discussion pages and other wiki pages

[18:48:35] <Yaron> Well, will it be one discussion page for every fact?

[18:48:40] <Denny_WMDE> it worked for a certain encyclopedia...

[18:48:44] <Yaron> Sorry, I think that was actually my question all along.

[18:48:53] <Denny_WMDE> no, we think more of one discussion page per item

[18:48:58] <Yaron> I guess really, I was wondering about the number of facts per page.

[18:49:19] <Denny_WMDE> there are no seperate discussion pages for mediawiki-sections

[18:49:33] <Yaron> Okay - I get it.

[18:49:34] <Denny_WMDE> this hints that we wont need separate discussion pages for every statement

[18:49:43] <Yaron> Thanks, that answered my question(s).

[18:49:43] <Denny_WMDE> great :) thanks for clarifying

[18:49:54] <Lydia_WMDE> ok

[18:49:56] <YairRand> so one discussion page for every category of facts?

[18:49:57] <Lydia_WMDE> next one is: <MaxSem> what about vandalism resistance: who will be able to edit the centralised data? where it will happen, on a dedicated wiki? how people are supposed to notice if their article's wikidata has been vandalised?

[18:50:03] -*- jeremyb wonders if the whole team is watching? i don't think i heard everyone talk

[18:50:14] <Lydia_WMDE> jeremyb: at least 4 are watching ;-)

[18:50:22] -*- Katie_WMDE waves :)

[18:50:28] <Yaron> YairRand - no, one page, and one discussion page, for every fact about "France", or whatever it is.

[18:50:35] <Denny_WMDE> MaxSem: that are several questions :) i go through them in order

[18:50:47] <Denny_WMDE> Everyone can edit, but some statements or pages may be protected

[18:50:54] <Denny_WMDE> Yes, there is one dedicated wiki

[18:50:56] <jeremyb> Katie_WMDE: you *did* speak already though ;)

[18:51:36] <Denny_WMDE> We are thinking about integrating relevant changes to the data of a page in the watchlist / history of a page in the Wikipedias

[18:51:47] <Denny_WMDE> but this is not exactly trivial

[18:52:02] <MaxSem> ...especially performance-wise

[18:52:06] <Denny_WMDE> exactly

[18:52:25] <Katie_WMDE> i think the history and watchlist would have the option to filter these (like bot edits)

[18:52:39] <jeremyb> well we already don't show image changes in the history of a page that uses the image

[18:52:39] <Denny_WMDE> we have an item "cascading inter-wiki protection", let's see what it will result in

[18:52:47] <emijrp> How do you know if a Wikimedia Commons image has been vandalised?

[18:52:48] <jeremyb> should be no more or less perf impact that than?

[18:52:51] <jeremyb> than that*

[18:52:55] <Denny_WMDE> right

[18:53:21] <Denny_WMDE> so we will investigate if we can do something better

[18:53:32] <Denny_WMDE> but our baseline is the current solution between commons and the wikipedias

[18:53:38] <Denny_WMDE> and between wikipedia articles and their templates

[18:53:43] <emijrp> If you are a wikipedian, you will check recent changes at wikidata, to fight vandalism; if you are a reader, you will check references to check facts

[18:53:44] <YairRand> the wikidata wiki itself will have watchlists, right?

[18:53:49] <Denny_WMDE> knowing well that that can be improved.

[18:53:54] <Denny_WMDE> MaxSem, answered?

[18:54:04] <Katie_WMDE> YairRand: yes

[18:54:05] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand, yes

[18:54:14] <Denny_WMDE> it is mediawiki

[18:54:23] <emijrp> Fact of the Day.

[18:54:24] <MaxSem> mmm

[18:54:32] <Katie_WMDE> emijrp: up to the community to decide

[18:54:39] <lumeng> Is Wikidata a MediaWiki instance?

[18:54:42] <Denny_WMDE> yes

[18:54:43] <jeremyb> yes

[18:54:45] <mahadeva> yup

[18:54:47] <Katie_WMDE> and we expect there will be some community, like wikimedia commons or openstreetmap

[18:54:59] <Denny_WMDE> correct

[18:55:04] <Denny_WMDE> next question?

[18:55:13] <Denny_WMDE> oh

[18:55:20] <Denny_WMDE> there are none on the list, says lydia

[18:55:28] <Katie_WMDE> more questions please?

[18:55:33] <Lydia_WMDE> peoples we have 30 mins left :D

[18:55:34] -*- MaxSem fears overcomplication, that's the question

[18:55:36] <lumeng> Would Wikidata have data that don't have any Wikipedia entry/entries that use them?

[18:55:48] <Katie_WMDE> MaxSem: we're keeping the scope limited for now

[18:55:55] <Katie_WMDE> interwiki links

[18:55:57] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: Up to the community to decide. The software will allow it.

[18:56:08] <mahadeva> i don't see any limitation for that

[18:56:09] <WW|airport> Sorry I missed yesterday, so this may have already been answered: Why are you using MediaWiki and not a TripleStore?

[18:56:27] <Denny_WMDE> WW|airport: that's an easy one.

[18:56:35] <Denny_WMDE> we are building on Wikimedia infrastructure

[18:56:39] -*- mahadeva likes mediawiki because it's supported by the community and the foundation

[18:57:00] <Denny_WMDE> they have a small budget, and they like if we do not introduce a completely new technological infrastructure requirement

[18:57:07] <WW|airport> Yes, but for representing points of data, RDF might make sense, even though there are problems with this as well.

[18:57:20] <Denny_WMDE> if we can use mediawiki, use the same dumping, backup, etc. they are very happy :)

[18:57:22] <lumeng> Would Wikidata develop some API for computer programs to access the database?

[18:57:28] <Lydia_WMDE> lumeng: yes

[18:57:32] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: yes

[18:57:36] <WW|airport> Especially as RDF would be able to deal with conflicting and incomplete data

[18:57:46] <mahadeva> having an API... that's almost imperative, IMHO

[18:57:56] <Denny_WMDE> WW|airport: we will provide an export to RDF

[18:57:58] <WW|airport> Will you then at least export RDF?

[18:58:03] <Yaron> In theory, there could also be an auxiliary triplestore, no?

[18:58:04] <WW|airport> okay.

[18:58:10] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: absolutely

[18:58:22] <Denny_WMDE> we expect those to be created by third-parties

[18:58:29] <Yaron> Oh, okay.

[18:58:56] <Denny_WMDE> MaxSem: you mentioned a fear of overcomplication

[18:59:02] <MaxSem> yes

[18:59:05] <Denny_WMDE> actually we hope to *simplify* things

[18:59:14] <MaxSem> from an editor viewpoint

[18:59:19] <Denny_WMDE> yes, exactly

[18:59:29] <Denny_WMDE> if you are on a page like Germany, or Berlin

[18:59:31] <Denny_WMDE> and click edit

[18:59:44] <Denny_WMDE> some people do get a bit scared by the infobox instantiation code

[18:59:49] <MaxSem> okay, I want to change the population of New York - what are the steps?

[18:59:54] <Denny_WMDE> this could be drastically simplified

[19:00:14] <WW|airport> Uh, are you not sucking the data from open data sources?

[19:00:17] <Denny_WMDE> there would be a link "edit data"

[19:00:18] <lumeng> Is there a way to use the beta version of Wikidata at the moment?

[19:00:21] <Denny_WMDE> not exactly sure where yet

[19:00:25] <Denny_WMDE> you come to Wikidata

[19:00:26] <lumeng> for an average user

[19:00:30] <WW|airport> I don't really want anyone to be editing the population of New York

[19:00:33] <Denny_WMDE> and change the data there, with forms and all that

[19:00:58] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron 's semantic forms are a great inspiration of how to make these things pretty and simple

[19:00:58] <YairRand> all data would need a reference though, right?

[19:01:01] <mahadeva> WW|airport, but that data will change over time

[19:01:08] <Yaron> Thanks,

[19:01:13] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: too early, we started developing today :)

[19:01:16] <Yaron> s/,/.

[19:01:19] <lumeng> :)

[19:01:29] <Katie_WMDE> YairRand: it's up to the community to decide what needs references

[19:01:35] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand: all data can have references, yes

[19:01:38] <JeroenDeDauw> Daniel_WMDE: would be great if you could quickly show how you use the debugger thing when you have time - I never found out how to use it more efficiently then what I currently do...

[19:01:48] <Katie_WMDE> but we expect most data will, although some common knowledge info maybe not

[19:01:58] <Denny_WMDE> but yes, it is up to the community to see what *needs* references, as Katie_WMDE says

[19:02:02] <WW|airport> mahadeva, yes, but it would have to be tagged with a timestamp

[19:02:04] <YairRand> data from different sources would say different things, though

[19:02:07] <Katie_WMDE> e.g. germany is in europe

[19:02:11] <Denny_WMDE> sorry

[19:02:14] <Denny_WMDE> getting confused

[19:02:22] <Katie_WMDE> or the sky is blue :)

[19:02:26] <Denny_WMDE> MaxSem, is your fear at least a bit countered?

[19:02:26] <Lydia_WMDE> yeah let's slow it down a bit again

[19:02:37] <MaxSem> Denny_WMDE, we'll see;)

[19:02:38] <emijrp> wikidata will allow transitivity?

[19:02:42] <Denny_WMDE> ok :)

[19:02:48] <lumeng> I read http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/30/wikipedias-next-big-thing-wikidata-a-machine-readable-user-editable-database-funded-by-google-paul-allen-and-others/  and wonders how queries like "which of the world’s ten largest cities have a female mayor?" would be supported

[19:02:48] <mahadeva> WW|airport, understood

[19:02:49] <YairRand> "Kazakhstan is in Europe" "No it's not" "..."

[19:02:57] <jeremyb> germany is always in europe. sky color changes over time and with perspective

[19:03:04] <Denny_WMDE> emijrp: re: transitivity. no, not in general. maybe for class hierarchies, not sure yet.

[19:03:07] <Daniel_WMDE> JeroenDeDauw: this worked for me: http://blog.jetbrains.com/webide/2011/02/zero-configuration-debugging-with-xdebug-and-phpstorm-2-0/

[19:03:08] <Katie_WMDE> YairRand: that might need a source

[19:03:09] <jeremyb> emijrp: what's that?

[19:03:11] <Daniel_WMDE> "zero" setup is a lie

[19:03:17] <Daniel_WMDE> but it's simple enough

[19:03:36] <emijrp> If Madrid is in Spain, and Spain is in Europe, then Madrid is in Europe.

[19:03:36] <Denny_WMDE> regarding facts that are discussed:

[19:03:37] <YairRand> "Well, Kazakhstan is partly in Europe" "Not according to my definition."

[19:04:02] <Katie_WMDE> YairRand: that fact is probably sourced on wikipedia

[19:04:03] <Denny_WMDE> wikidata is not about truth, imho

[19:04:12] <Denny_WMDE> but about collecting statements, with their references

[19:04:13] <WW|airport> emijrp, that is not necessarily true. That is the problem with data. For example, Kurdistan. Where exactly does it lie?

[19:04:15] <Katie_WMDE> spain is in europe might not be

[19:04:19] <Denny_WMDE> it is a secondary database

[19:04:20] <Katie_WMDE> i don't know

[19:04:40] <jeremyb> DerHexer: english only here ;)

[19:04:47] <WW|airport> Denny_WMDE, do you have someone on the team with experience in ontologies and with RDF, RDFS and OWL?

[19:04:55] <DerHexer> yes, apparently, I forgot it yesterday

[19:05:15] <jeremyb> i also forgot (slept through) yesterday

[19:05:18] <Denny_WMDE> WW|airport: well, we have one of the co-authors of OWL helping us here :)

[19:05:31] <jeremyb> Denny_WMDE: who's that?

[19:05:36] <Denny_WMDE> WW|airport Markus Krötzsch

[19:05:42] <jeremyb> ahh

[19:05:56] <WW|airport> sounds good!

[19:05:58] <Lydia_WMDE> ok can we get back to the list of questions now?

[19:06:02] <Denny_WMDE> and my own phd was on ontology evaluation

[19:06:11] <WW|airport> Great.

[19:06:16] <Denny_WMDE> so i dare to say, yes ;)

[19:06:32] <Lydia_WMDE> still open: <emijrp> wikidata will allow transitivity?

[19:06:49] <Denny_WMDE> emijrp: not on our list right now.

[19:06:58] <emijrp> ok

[19:07:04] <Denny_WMDE> emijrp: there might be some specific cases, that we might touch though

[19:07:17] <Denny_WMDE> like geo-inclusion, time-inclusion, class hierarchies, ...

[19:07:28] <Denny_WMDE> but there is a lot of stuff we need to get resolved before that

[19:07:38] <Denny_WMDE> and it might fall out of the first year plan

[19:08:00] <Lydia_WMDE> next one: <lumeng> I read http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/30/wikipedias-next-big-thing-wikidata-a-machine-readable-user-editable-database-funded-by-google-paul-allen-and-others/  and wonders how queries like "which of the world’s ten largest cities have a female mayor?" would be supported

[19:08:16] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: how do you mean?

[19:08:24] <joancreus> Lydia_WMDE: add 'unix-like ln to wikidata', please ;)

[19:08:25] <Denny_WMDE> how the query would be formulated?

[19:08:34] <Denny_WMDE> how the technologoy would look like?

[19:08:43] <mahadeva> SQL-ish?

[19:08:45] <Lydia_WMDE> joancreus: is that a question? ;-)

[19:09:00] <YairRand> "List of countries by GDP ... hm, pull wikidata's listings." "using what source?" "these ones" "but those sources act as though the EU is a country!" "..."

[19:09:15] <lumeng> Does the English query gets translated to an SQL statement and applied to the db?

[19:09:26] <joancreus> Lydia_WMDE: when it appears, i'll formulate it ;)

[19:09:31] <Lydia_WMDE> joancreus: k

[19:09:42] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: no. we don't have technology to turn english into sql, i am afraid

[19:09:59] <Denny_WMDE> we will have to think about interfaces where queries can be formulated

[19:10:01] <lumeng> just some idea how the user experience would look like and how roughly the technology works

[19:10:10] <Denny_WMDE> we do not know yet, frankly

[19:10:19] <lumeng> you mean some table form UI

[19:10:22] <Denny_WMDE> that's all up in phase 3, which is… not so tightly defined

[19:10:29] <lumeng> ok

[19:10:39] <Denny_WMDE> neither the frontend

[19:10:41] <Denny_WMDE> nor the backend

[19:10:52] <Denny_WMDE> so it might be some nosql store, some triple store, or simply mysql?

[19:11:11] <Denny_WMDE> it might be a query language, or a form-based query editor, or something else entirely?

[19:11:15] <Denny_WMDE> seriously, we do not know

[19:11:19] <Denny_WMDE> but we are gathering use cases

[19:11:20] <Denny_WMDE> for queries

[19:11:27] <lumeng> there seems to be oppertunity to open up a world of "data app"

[19:11:32] <Denny_WMDE> this helps us a lot in order to understand, which kind of queries we should support

[19:11:37] <Denny_WMDE> lydia, do you have the url?

[19:11:41] <lumeng> specialized wikidata querying apps

[19:11:48] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: absolutely

[19:11:57] <Denny_WMDE> i hope to see many of those! :)

[19:12:02] <lumeng> very exciting

[19:12:09] <Katie_WMDE> :)

[19:12:15] <Lydia_WMDE> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Queries i think is the page where we collect

[19:12:21] <Denny_WMDE> thanks

[19:12:26] <Lydia_WMDE> joancreus: ok time for you to expand "unix-like ln to wikidata" :D

[19:12:33] <Denny_WMDE> i think i understand this one

[19:12:39] <lumeng> What does it mean?

[19:12:46] <Denny_WMDE> joancreus: we will have aliases for all items in wikidata

[19:12:56] <joancreus> ok!

[19:12:57] <Denny_WMDE> so you can refer to "Barack Obama" via "Obama" etc

[19:12:59] <joancreus> it was for something like

[19:13:02] <jeremyb> hard links. so you change a value somewhere and it changes other places too with the single edit

[19:13:03] <lumeng> does ln mean the UNIX utility?

[19:13:10] <joancreus> Berlin->population-latest linked to Berlin->population-2012

[19:13:16] <Denny_WMDE> ah

[19:13:26] <Denny_WMDE> we will have defaults

[19:13:34] <Denny_WMDE> that will cover some of these

[19:13:34] <joancreus> so that, on the infobox, there will be population-latest

[19:13:40] <Lydia_WMDE> about 15 minutes left

[19:13:43] <joancreus> but at tables, population-2012 will be able to be used

[19:13:50] <joancreus> Lydia_WMDE: ok. next question

[19:13:58] <Lydia_WMDE> the list is empty now :D

[19:14:09] <Denny_WMDE> joancreaus: the functionality you are envisioning will be possible, but done in a different way

[19:14:09] <YairRand> question: will everything be localizable? page titles, etc.

[19:14:17] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand: absolutely

[19:14:42] <joancreus> brb

[19:15:09] <Denny_WMDE> well :)

[19:15:20] <Yaron> I have another question: what is the planned relationship, after the end of this year, between the WMF and Wikidata?

[19:15:32] <Yaron> If this thing succeeds, will the WMF take over the project?

[19:15:43] <jeremyb> joancreus: see /msg

[19:15:44] <Denny_WMDE> Yaron: WMF will run, maintain, and operate Wikidata

[19:16:07] <Yaron> Alright, cool.

[19:16:42] <lumeng> What kind of volunteer works are available at the moment?

[19:16:54] <Denny_WMDE> lumeng: we are gathering use cases

[19:17:03] <Lydia_WMDE> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Volunteers is a sign-up page

[19:17:13] <Denny_WMDE> both for "types of data" and "type of queries"

[19:17:13] <lumeng> I did sign up there

[19:17:14] <Lydia_WMDE> it'll take a bit though still

[19:17:29] <Lydia_WMDE> and we're collecting logo ideas ;-)

[19:17:31] <lumeng> can you give a concrete example of "types of data" ?

[19:17:42] <Denny_WMDE> our development only started now, as soon as we have it running, there will be l10n work to be done

[19:17:47] <Denny_WMDE> translating messages etc.

[19:17:49] <Katie_WMDE> yes, a logo please :)

[19:18:03] <Denny_WMDE> then when wikidata starts, the site will have lots of opportunities to contribute

[19:18:28] <Denny_WMDE> when the demonstrator starts, we are looking for people to break it

[19:19:02] <Yaron> If you're already looking for logo ideas, here's my nomination: http://4.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/8/f/bustedtees.d51c6a7807cca8540136be6fba9deb8d.gif

[19:19:14] <Katie_WMDE> heh

[19:19:20] <YairRand> will data points be able to reference images? (Country X > flag = ...)

[19:19:27] <Lydia_WMDE> Yaron: close second so far :P

[19:19:33] <Denny_WMDE> isn't that spelled greace?

[19:19:48] <Yaron> Yeah, they messed up the spelling. :)

[19:19:51] <emijrp> Albert Einstein in 1900, in 1901, in ...

[19:20:07] <Denny_WMDE> YairRand: yep, it is on our list

[19:20:16] <Lydia_WMDE> 10 minutes

[19:20:21] <Denny_WMDE> although i would model it differently myself

[19:20:58] <Denny_WMDE> Country X > flag > Flag of Country X > depiction > FlagOfCountryX.png

[19:21:04] <Denny_WMDE> but that's up to the community

[19:21:14] <lumeng> For coming up with logo design, MetaCPAN (a search engine for Perl libraries) used http://contest.metacpan.org/ and http://entries.contest.metacpan.org/ to gather and select their new logo a few weeks ago

[19:21:30] <Lydia_WMDE> thx lumeng

[19:21:33] <Denny_WMDE> we are just looking for a temp logo for now

[19:21:46] <Denny_WMDE> once there is a proper community

[19:21:46] <Lydia_WMDE> i'll have a look

[19:21:48] <Denny_WMDE> they will decide on a less temp logo and all

[19:22:04] <Denny_WMDE> right now there is no one with the authority to decide on a logo for good

[19:22:35] <Denny_WMDE> is that it?

[19:23:20] <Denny_WMDE> thanks for the amazing interest! considering the fact that we only started a few days ago, the resonance has been awesome.

[19:23:32] <Lydia_WMDE> thanks everyone for coming!

[19:23:40] <Denny_WMDE> thank you for your interest, and taking the time to come here, and for your questions

[19:23:42] <Lydia_WMDE> you're welcome to stay here and ask questions later as well of course

[19:23:47] <Katie_WMDE> great to chat and hear questions

[19:23:55] <Denny_WMDE> i hope everyone is happy or at least a bit less anxious than before :)

[19:23:56] <Yaron> Thanks for answering the questions! I learned a lot, actually.

[19:24:20] <lumeng> Thanks

[19:24:28] <lumeng> i learned something about wikidata

[19:24:48] <Katie_WMDE> lumeng: awesome :)

[19:25:52] <YairRand> Wikidata: The free knowledge base. Coming soon (well, not really) to a wiki near you.

[19:26:09] <Denny_WMDE> hey, depends on your definition of soon :)

[19:26:16] <Katie_WMDE> :)

[19:26:16] <Denny_WMDE> we'll beat the hobbit

[19:26:23] <Denny_WMDE> although we missed duke nukem forever, darn