Requests for comment/Jose77 on Uyghur Wikipedia

The following request for comments is closed. The request was eventually archived as inactive.

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Moved from RfP

“ We like our Tradition, see logo in the corner, it is Beautiful, it is like Water, Latin alphabet it is like knives cutting. I think that if all Latin Alphabets in the world are changed to Arabics we have no more war or Violence. Look at Somalia, they used Arabic alphabet once and had peace with themself, now they use Latin Alphabets and has violence. Same with many of the rest of Africa. ” — توشقان 00:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC), [1]

“ The Arabic alphabet looks like someone scribbling whereas the Latin alphabet looks neat and tidy. I personally think that you Kashgar Uyghurs have been heavily intoxicated by Radical Islamic Ideology. Uyghurs living in Turpan, Ili, Ghulja, Urumqi etc. do not think this way. All the Central Asian Turkic republics such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, Kirghistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey either use the Latin or Cyrillic alphabetm ... I know that some of your folk had gone down to Afghanistan to receive military training assistance from the Taliban Extremists who in turn have cordial relations with Al-Qaeda. As we all know, Al-Qaeda was responsible for the September 11 Terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre in the United States, murdering 2,992 innocent civilians. ” — Jose77 02:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC), [2]

My quote is quite different from yours. Mine is simply my opinion of an alphabet, yours is an accusation of an entire culture of radical islam, terrorism, and killing of innocents. Besides, of course, the assumption that I am from Kashqar. I'll have you know I am from Ürümchi. --توشقا 06:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello Sirs. I have several reasons for this requesting.

1. User claim no knowledge of Uyghur langage.
2. User not elected administrator, requested it here "temporarily" so he can translate interface (!).
3. User respond poorly to criticism.
4. User have personal Vendetta against Arabic alphabets (see final two section of his talk page). Arabic alphabets is not only most popular, is also most widely-known and is official in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, where Uyghur resides mostly today [3] (also see [4] where is default alphabet; or Google where search "ئۇيغۇر تىلى" vs Latin "uyghur tili" show it). He removed almost entirely Arabic letters from site and said that users that wants to use Arabic can "go to YulghunWiki instead".
5. User banned me sometime "criticizing an administrator" (but debanned since).
6. User locked own talkpage to unregister user after criticism over alphabet that not more users can say on this issue..
7. User deleted existing administrator election page, ug:Wikipedia:هاكیملار for no reason.
8. Again I emphasis user's deletion and banned against rules, lack of community for vote to remove sysopbits, and original intention temporary status to translate interface.

I understand is not usual to accept request from other user but you please consider. Thanks. --"Toshqan" ug:User:توشقان

I apologize for blocking him in the first place. As he mentioned above, I had removed the ban shortly afterwards. In fact, at one stage I even tried to help him become administrator.

However I disagree with Toshqan's criticism for the following reasons:

1. I had never vandalised or spammed any articles on Uyghur Wikipedia.
2. Before I first became sysop there (last year), the site only contained 40 'articles' which were mostly stubs, spam or had been heavily vandalised.
3. The fact that I have 'no knowledge' of the Uyghur language does not hinder my ability to detect and delete spam/vandalism.
4. Uyghur Wikipedia was in a state of 'anarchy' when sysops were absent.
5. I had answered his criticism this time on his talk page.
6. The Uyghur interface was translated into Uyghur. (with the kind help of User:Kiyim Kemal). That was the purpose for me requesting adminship in the first place.
7. The Local Requests for Adminstrators page exists.
8. User:Toshqan's criticism only reflects the viewpoint of the Kashgar Uyghurs. The Northern and Eastern Uyghurs may not necessarily share the same opinion.
9. My decision to use the Uyghur Latin alphabet for the main page was based on this statement made by Kiyim Kemal (A native Uyghur from the Ghulja region who currently lives in the United Kingdom):

"Yes, I think it will help a lot to have wikipedia to become a common source for Uyghurs.... I think it is also becoming a common practice to use Latin Alphabets as the main vs. Arabic or cyrillic letters and most Uyghurs know Latin alphabet...."

--Jose77 08:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

1. I never accuse you of vandal or spam articles on Ug.wp.
2. Well, that is not all you do at this Wikipedia. You interfere in our language by trying to tell us we may not use Arabic alphabet.
3. Well, I am perfectly willing to be a sysop instead of you. That will keep anarchy out.
4. Yes... using poor Unicode, and then transliterated to a script most Uyghurs do not use.
5. Yes, but you deleted the OLD page for no reason.
6. First of all, you assume I am Kashqar Uyghur; is irrelevant, majority of uyghurs use Arabic script, AND it is official.
7. The decision should not be yours, you do not speak this language. You change our native alphabet to the alien one.
8. Still you did ynot respond to majority of my original points: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8. --توشقا 06:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

User:توشقا is a liar. I never said that he couldn't use the arabic alphabet on Uyghur Wikipedia. This was what I said: "If any Uyghurs prefer writing articles using the Arabic or Cyrillic script instead of Latin, then they have the freedom to do so [5]"

--Jose77 21:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh how lovely it is to erase the history.

“ Nevertheless if any Uyghurs ... wish to use the arabic script then they can always go to YulghunWiki instead ” — Jose77 20:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

--توشقا 06:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Outside view by ReyBrujo

There is something fishy going on ug.wikipedia.org. Jose77 vouched for KiyimKemal, someone without edits (not even to justify the claim that "he's a native Uyghur speaker") and whose page was created by Jose77 himself. Some hours after an steward turned the request down, Barat begins his massive list of contributions. The rate at which this user was creating articles was absurd, a full article like ug:Mehmud qeshqeri took 2 minutes (if we consider the user's previous edit on ug:Jurjit on March 28, 2007 00:41 and the next one, ug:Abduqadir damollam on March 28, 2007 00:43). Although I do not understand the language, Google understands unicode, and the article ug:Mehmud qeshqeri was found to be a copyright violation of this page, written by someone named xabnam on 2006-10-7 4:29:28, months before Barat. A copyvio test (searching for a phrase that appears in the first document into the other, then searching for a phrase that appears in the second document in the first one, back and forth a couple of times) indicates that most (if not all) has been copied from there. The article about ug:Abduqadir damollam was found to be copyvio from this post written in 2004, while the article about ug:Jurjit was found to be an exact copy of ug:Qitan, which in time was a copy of this post (you can even see the BBS code [align/] in both!). A random article like ug:Flaubert is found to be copyvio from this page, written on 2006-12-12.

I am administrator at the English Wikipedia, and work very closely with copyright violations (at en:Wikipedia:Suspected copyright violations. Had I (or anyone else, for that matter) found a user like Barat, he would have been blocked indefinitely due copyright vandalism. I seriously suggest a neutral administrator of ug or a steward to review the articles found in that Wikipedia because, unless these sites are releasing their content under the public domain (something I really doubt), ug.wikipedia.org is not aiming at being a free encyclopedia.

Finally, I really suggest an Steward to review Jose77's behavior. If this were the English Wikipedia, I would even dare to request a checkuser between Jose77 and Barat (unfortunately Kiyim Kemal never did an edit, as a side note he was nominated 3 days after the account was created). It is possible Jose77 knows these two persons personally, but if so he should have stated so already. -- ReyBrujo 06:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for not being able to detect copyrighted material promptly in the first place. Therefore I will User:Barat regarding whether or not he had asked for permission from the authors of those websites to "cut-n-paste" the material.

Also, User:KiyimKemal was the person who gave me the Uyghur translations for the interface messages. That was the reason why I supported his adminship (Nevertheless I was surprised to see that he did not make any further contributions). I know neither Kiyim Kemal nor Barat personally - all I know is that they both live outside China because the Uyghurs living China were unable to access Uyghur Wikipedia (Blocked by the Chinese authorities I presume). --Jose77 22:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Outside view by Pathoschild

Whether or not he should be desysop'd, note that his temporary access expires in six days. —{admin} Pathoschild 07:04:06, 01 April 2007 (UTC)

I have already desysopped Jose77 due to his misconduct in this affair, namely blocking توشقان and deleting his own talk page, as per stewards' discussion on IRC. MaxSem 07:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)