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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Leonese

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

A committee member provided the following comment:

No language code. Considered to be a dialect of Asturian. Please contribute at Asturian Wikipedia. For LangCom: StevenJ81 (talk) 16:10, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code  (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Leonese Language name in English
Language name llïonés Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q34108 - item has currently the following values: Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality no indication Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL .wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Guiquipeia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Europe/Salamanca "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Proposal

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The leonese language was born in the territory of the old Kingdom of Leon, Spain. This language gradually, was pushed back in favor of Castilian or Spanish. The language was evolving in each territory and so were born the leonese, the asturian, the mirandese and the extremaduran. Now these are different languages, altought the asturian and the leonese share the same code ISO. These share, not is only of asturian. The leonese speakers need a wikipedia page in our language because the asturian and the leonese are different languages, and because the asturian do not leave us write in their wikipedia in our language. The mirandese, the extremaduran and the asturian have their own wikipedia, but the leonese doesn't, and we want it so we can write and read articles in our own language.

Comparation leonese and asturian:

Leonese: Escueita, pur quéi nun pou deixare de chovere d'una vegada?

Asturian: ¿Escucha, por qué nun puede dexar de llover d'una vuelta?

English: Listen, why can not stop raining once and for all?

As you can see, the leonese and the asturian are very different in daily context. Possibly the leonese are more similar to mirandese or galician, than asturian wich is more similar to Castilian.

Spanish: ¿Escucha, por qué no puede dejar de llover de una vez?

Galician: Escoita, por qué non pode dexar de chover d'una vez?

I repeat leonese is different from asturian, extremaduran and mirandese.

Discussion

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Why isn't the Asturian Wikipedia enough? Leonese doesn't have a separate ISO code. All languages approved by LangCom must have an ISO code. PiRSquared17 (talk) 19:53, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So why don't you request a separate ISO code? PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We're doing, but the Asturian have appropiated the leonese for to get the code ISO, because the leonese is having cultivated literature, we want a wikipedia in leonese language because the Asturian have the code ISO shared with the leonese but they don't leave us, write in his wikipedia with our language.

--Güevu (talk) 01:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC) I oppose this proposal criteria. It is confusing philology with territoriality. The macrolanguage or diasystem concerned; Asturian-Leonese (called by speakers in Asturias as "Asturian" and recently called "leonese" in the Province of León and Zamora, but never as patrimonial way), part of a series of variants of which one, the center, was chosen as standard academically (by de Academia de la Llingua Asturiana) . The "Mirandese" has its own standard regulated by the Anstatuto de la Lhéngua Mirandesa. First, I have to say that comparative texts between languages are invalid. This person is comparing standard variant of the language with an artificial western dialect invented for political Abel Pardo, who has little or nothing to do with the heritage language of Leon (the same as in Asturias). It is a political/linguistic aberration discredited by philologists, and has not the support of the institutions of the movement claim language of Leon. The real comparison would be:[reply]
  • Somiedu, Asturies (west block): Escuita, ¿por quéi nun puode deixar de chover d'una vez/vegada/vuolta?
  • Babia, León (west block): Escuita, ¿por quéi nun puode deixar de chover d'una vez/vegada/vuolta?
  • Xixón, Asturies (central block): Escucha, ¿por qué nun pue dexar de llover d'una vez/vegada/vuelta?
  • Viḷḷamanín, León (central block): Escucha,¿por qué nun pue dexar de chover d'una vez/vegá/vuelta?

I strongly oppose this proposal, since it will disrupt current astwiki and translatewiki work, both active and performing well as they are now. Should might be some issues with Asturian language dialects it must be solved elsewhere (i.e. get a new ISO language code, have an official language governing body...) to prevent dumping all current existing work in astwiki and translatewiki. In a nutshell, this proposal does not meet requisites 1, 2 and 3 for eligibility. --Xuacu (talk) 16:02, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are wrong, the language is the leonese, the asturian is a dialect of the leonese, because the language was born in León and make the first text in leonese language. The rules of asturian aren't compatibles with leonese because this preserve many things that the asturian has been simplified. The leonese people are creating a rules for ortographiy and for grammar. And I remember that if the leonese, is a dialect of asturian; the extremaduran and mirandese are the same. The Asturian have tried absorb and represent all languages of the diasystem astur-leones, but the Leonese not allow to be told how to speak our language.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to speak their language. My point is that all existing work in astwiki and translatewiki should not be moved from an existing ISO code, with a well defined language rules, an official governing body, a decent number of native speakers and a core group of editors and translators to an undefined ISO code (you want to use «ast» from Asturian for Leonese, don't you?), to use undefined language rules, and to have an unknown number of users and translators. Moreover, ast ISO code is being widely used in a lot of other Free Software pojects for Asturian language (you may want to check major projects like main Linux distros, Apache OpenOffice, Libreoffice, Mozilla project and whatnot). I don't imply you don't try to start a Leonese wikiproject on your own but please, please, please, leave alone existing projects and do your own work. (Disclaimer: This is Xuacu. For now, I haven't that name available when I log in from astwiki) --Oriciu (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • If it's really so different, get an ISO 639 code from SIL. That's what you need to do first. If you do, then you can start a test project on Incubator. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I favor a wikipedia in Leonese, representing all varieties and avoiding the tyranny of the current normative spelling, totally inappropriate. The current wikipedia only represents Central Asturian. There would be no problem of compatibility with the current wikipedia, one can publish articles duplicate. The model would be the Rumantsch Wikipedia: It uses mainly Rumantsch Grischun ( fusion ) but written local "idioms" are allowed > this way all visions are respected due to the very characteristics of the language. I think it would be a nice reference. Or else that : change the name of the Asturian wikipedia to " AsturLeonese" and allow everyone to edit following the before mentioned policy of the Rumantsch Wiki . Xurugetu (talk) 16:51, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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