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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Cajun French

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Cajun French Wikipedia

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submitted verification final decision

 

This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval and will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

A committee member provided the following comment:

The language is suitable and the test project has been deemed a success. The only step left before the creation of a Cajun French Wikipedia is the translation of the basic wiki interface; if you'd like to contribute, please see "Localization" on the talk page.--Shanel 18:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code frc (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Louisiana French Language name in English
Language name français louisianais Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q880301 - item has currently the following values: Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links LSU Cajun Pages Folklore Studies at UL Lafayette Francophone Studies at UL LafayetteLe Tabloid Cadien! BDLP-LouisianeÉtudes Francophones Vol 21 ed 1&2 Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL frc.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name Wikipédia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone America/Chicago "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

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"Cajun French" is the name of the language and while its name does imply that it is spoken by Cajuns, one should not forget that it is also spoken by non-Cajuns who were assimilated into Cajun culture. Cajun French is spoken by Cajuns, Creoles, Blacks and American Indians primarily in Louisiana but also throughout the United States and by a few speakers who have moved abroad.

Cajun French is taught at Louisiana State University, University of Louisiana, French Immersion schools, high schools and as local language classes across south Louisiana.

While Cajun French isn't exactly a different language, it does, however, have vocabulary and a somewhat different grammatical style that would normally be edited out of the French Wikipedia due to the unfortunate and incorrect idea that Cajun French is "bad French." This Wikipedia would help speakers of Cajun French write their language without having to worry about it being edited to the point where the language is no longer comprehensible. This would also help Cajun French become a more literary language and possibly help standardize it. JeanVoisin 15:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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Arguments in favor

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  • Support Support This project I believe would thrive. There are several organizations in Louisiana wherein Cajun speakers can organize and spead the word of the Cajun project.

This language project is needed as many of the topics specific to Louisiana as well as international topics don't translate into standard French very well. It is true that Cajun and standard French speakers can understand each other yet it remains true that their vocabulary is only 60% similar. There is a large set of words that would just not be accepted as part of standard French that are part and parcle of the Cajun language. Some Cajuns can read the standard French site but I would bet the most can't. Verb conjugations are very relaxed in Cajun and sever other structures just don't have the same meaning as standard French. This site would grow pretty fast as speakers of Cajun will probably be able to start pulling information from both the English and French sites borrowing whatever vocabulary from either language as needed. The Cajun Language site would serve a valuable function in Cajun society as a teaching tool, a learning tool of topics and language and as a sort of embassy to those other Francophones that want to come to Louisiana and hear our unique dialect.--Billiot 16:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I believe in this project. --Midnight Green 07:50, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support I also believe that this project is greatly needed and well overdue. Amanda LaFleur, professor at LSU and head of the Cajun Studies department says that 80-90% of the words in Cajun French are also found in France. News From France Page 3 "Cajun Dictionary Online" However, she fails to mention that many of the words are only found in the French countryside, they are considered to be outdated and that while the words are the same in Louisiana and France, some of the meanings are totally different. For example: Cajun French: espérer (to wait) / France French: espérer (to hope); Cajun French: attendre (to hear); France French: attendre (to wait), and the list goes on to include such things as place names, verb conjugations, subject pronouns, animals, flora and fauna, etc. These differences can create confusion and therefore, I believe that a Cajun French Wikipedia is needed as it is Wikipedia's goal to provide clear, understandable and precise information to everyone in their own language. JeanVoisin 17:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Strongly Support Instead of repeating what everyone else has said, I'll just add that a Cajun French Wikipedia would do wonders to help preserve the language while at the same time helping the language grow. There have been many books and college dissertations written about the language, its vocabulary and its grammar. There's a dictionary that was written in the 1980's by Rev. Daigle called A Dictionary of the Cajun Language and there's another dictionary, The Dictionary of Louisiana French: As Spoken in Cajun, Creole and Native American Communities, that's currently in the works which should be published soon. I strongly support this project and I really hope that it will succeed. Lâche pas! RoyAlcatraz 05:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support There is a common, easily made assumption that Cajun French is not "real" French. This statement is false. Given this premise, it follows that if Cajun French is edited as incorrect on the "referentiel" French site, then there should be another forum in which Cajun French can thrive. Francophones from all over the world come to Louisiana to teach French. This site would not only help disseminate Cajun French amonst a Cajun/Creole population, but it would serve to educate those coming to Louisiana. Through exposure, they can become aware of what a rich and beautiful language Cajun French is, before they even arrive. I fully support this initiative Valblol 10:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support In Limburg is zelfs 'ne band dae leedjes sjpeelt in 't Cajun Frans. --Ooswesthoesbes 11:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC) Translated: Even in Limburg (the Netherlands) is a band who plays songs in Cajun French.[reply]
  • Support Support : it seems that the development of this wiki should be “important” and more realistic than some others which were created (I think about arpitan wiki, for example, when, according to my views and some other views, there is no more real franco-provençal speaking community). I don't know how many people use Cajun language, but there are some proofs of a living culture, different from others. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 18:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support The Cajun culture is arguably one of the most inclusive ones on the North American continent; its language (more of a sprachraum, arguably, with mutual intelligibility dropping off drastically with distance between local dialects - though mass communication may change this, moving Cajun more toward a common dialect with major English borrowing for concepts which postdate the settlement of South Louisiana) deserves recognition. And since per capita, at least during the 1970s, the people of South Louisiana were among the most highly-educated ethnic groups in the United States, it may be that a Cajun Wikipedia would be highly appropriate to a knowledge-tropic people.loupgarous 05:45, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support --U.Steele 21:33, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soutien. Je ne comprends pas le Cajun, ni ceux du Québec. Il est courant d'écrire différemment. Pourquoi s'opposer à cette communauté d'avoir votre histoire ici?
  • soutien- il me semble utile de ne pas limiter au cajun/français de Lousiane et le sud des Etats Unis masi aussi d'incorporer le français Quebécois , je fais la suggestion seulement --DerekvG (talk) 21:14, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Support What is now Cajun French has had 400 years of independent evolution and isolation from Standard French, not to mention prolonged contact with a melange of languages: Mi'kmaq in the 1600s, then slave creoles and English, and today even half-French half-Spanish creoles used by some Cajun and Mexican immigrant farmers.--Vieux padna (talk) 17:38, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

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  • Oppose Contre : Est-ce que le français cadien une autre langue que le français? Si non, pourquoi un nouveau Wikipédia (en français cajun) est necessaire? Il n'y a pas un Wikipédia français québécois même il n'y a pas de Wikipédia anglais americain, anglais britanique, ou anglais australien. Jusfiq 04:56, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Translation: "Is Cajun French another language from French? If not, why is a Cajun French wikipedia required? There is no Quebec French Wikipedia, or American, British and Australian English Wikipedia." —translated by --Kanzler31 02:45, 19 July 2010 (UTC).[reply]
Il n'y a pas de wikipédia en francais québecois parce qu'il n'y a presque aucun différence, à part une seule, dans la formation des mots. 82.249.6.135 17:57, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Translation: "There isn't a Quebecois Wikipedia because there's almost no difference, apart from in the formation of words" —translated by Île flottante 18:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC).[reply]
Je te contredis; en ayant lu tous les articles sur ce test, je suis arrivé à la conclusion que le français cadien et le français propre sont la même langue. Je ne comprends pas très bien le français québecois, pourtant, je comprends parfaitement « le français cadien ».
Translation: "I contradict you; having read all of the articles on this test, I arrived at the conclusion that Cajun Frech and Clean French are the same language. I don't understand Quebecois French very well, however, I understand "Cajun French" perfectly." —translated by Île flottante 18:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC).[reply]
There is not a Wikipedia in British English, Canadian French, Russian Yiddish or German Yiddish. Why should their be one in Cajun French. It is just a dialect. They are the same language.
Why not in acadian french then. It has a couple different words and a little different formation of words. ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 13:01, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is a Wikipedia in Pennsylvania Dutch though, and every dialect of German, as well as one in simple English.-MacRusgail (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose What we are talking about is more a less a random mix of English and French words. Which word of a sentence is going to be French and/or English depending only on the given speaker. Cajun French has, from what I could understand, no own normalized form, other than, say, Hawaiian Pidgin English. --eugrus (talk) 14:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

General discussion

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It's a pity this project has run into undeep waters and stranded. I know some people who can some Cajun French. I'll soon reach them. --OosWesThoesBes 14:23, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Having read the articles on this wikipedia test, I have arrived at the conclusion that this version of French is no different to standard French. Frankly, the articles are poorly written. There is no guide on what sort of orthography is required. Perhaps a wikipedia in XVII/XVIIIth century French would be better? Île flottante 18:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I assume that your statement that the articles are poorly written means that they aren't written in proper standard French. This contradicts your statement that Cajun French "is no different to standard French". As mentioned above: "While Cajun French isn't exactly a different language, it does, however, have vocabulary and a somewhat different grammatical style that would normally be edited out of the French Wikipedia due to the unfortunate and incorrect idea that Cajun French is 'bad French.'" Do you have any specific examples of how the articles are "poorly written"? Kaldari 01:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I support this project, but I watched some articles on the incubator and they use the same orthography of Standard French. Couldn't it be written with an eye dialect spelling to reflect the local pronunciation? Otherwise it would look like a clone of the already existing French Wikipedia, and people may think it just doesn't make sense. This dictionary contains IPA transcription: https://books.google.it/books?id=vw5TIVBcNsIC&printsec=frontcover&hl=it#v=onepage&q&f=false

I know there are some sounds that are absent in Standard French, but you could add some new letters to transcribe them. Some suggestions:

  • Short I [ɪ]:ĭ
  • Short U [ʏ]:ŭ
  • Short OU [ʊ]:oŭ
  • Thrilled R [r]:ŗ (okay this may be excessive)
  • Short A [æ]: maybe ä or just æ (some languages use this character, not just IPA)
  • [ã] ăn or ĕn depending by the way it's spelled in each word.

I don't know if creating a new orthography goes against Wikipedia's policy or not, but if it doesn't, then i suggest you to consider this option. But it's up to you to decide. 

--93.40.189.227 16:48, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Localisation update

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As the language has passed the discussion stage, it is relevant to get the localisation done. This is with the incubator project a requirement that has to be fulfilled before a real project is considered. GerardM 08:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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