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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Chaldon-Siberian 2

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Chaldon-Siberian

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submitted verification final decision
  This proposal has been closed as part of a reform of the request process.
This request has not necessarily been rejected, and new requests are welcome. This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy.

The closing committee member provided the following comment:

This discussion was created before the implementation of the Language proposal policy, and it is incompatible with the policy. Please open a new proposal in the format this page has been converted to (see the instructions). Do not copy discussion wholesale, although you are free to link to it or summarise it (feel free to copy your own comments over). —{admin} Pathoschild 04:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Proposal summary
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Member of the Commonwealth of East-Slavonic Test wikipedias http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Sodruzhestvo-sib

Support

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this even hardly could be called dialect. just unpopular slang of several people. Elk Salmon 17:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Already 1200 --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 14:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This language is an interesting thing to learn and to try speaking it is even more interesting.Ghzhnfh 17:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- Every language should have the ground to protect and develop itself whether it's documented or not. -- 03:28, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support - Asmen
  • Support - Anclation

Oppose

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Ethnologue.com is the reference about if this language exists, is a lie about the 5-10 millions, exists languages with few speakers (hundreds or dozens) and has a ISO code. I suspect about the support of the IP annonymous, because only Yaroslav is the unique registered user. --Taichi - (あ！) 22:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Requests to ethnologue.com and ISO today were made by our group --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:41, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
sib but not slb --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 04:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just please type "Chaldon Siberia" in Google, and we can show a lot of people how know the language, and promote it. All the three east-slavonic wikis (russian, ukrainian, belorussian) have articles about the language --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 18:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose -- sib is the ISO 639 code for the Sebob language spoken in Kenyah, classified as a living language in Ethnologue and accepted in the ISO 639 standard. Please stop inventing codes like this. First check ISO 639 resources. If there's no code in ISO 639, don't assign your own code (all 2or 3 letter codes are reserved for exclusive assignment in ISO 639). For now the only viable code will be based on the code for Russian, i.e. as a variant of Russian: ru-siberian, or using the RFC 3066 recommadned notation for languages without codes: (e.g. x-siberian-chaldon). I really urge you to contact the Russian standard organism to ask for assistance if you want a code in ISO 639. And also, try to find accurate (academic) references about this language, because there's for now no evidence that it is really different from Russian, and no evidence that it is even classified in the East Slavonic language family! And also there's no evidence from other native people in this area (other areas outside Russia do use recognized East Slavonic languages but there may be legends about the Siberian variant that they have never actually heard!).
Academic refrences about differences between siberian dialects and official russian will be enough or not? And what is about other native people? 10 of them went here for vote. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 21:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Note that if this is a reconstructed language, its base is still the modern Russian, and the variant is based on Old Slavonic, so the code to use should reflect this: the only viable code for now is ru- followed by the ISO 639 code chu assigned for Old Church Slavonic (don't use the two letter code there because it's reserved for ISO 3166 country codes). This would give the final code ru-chu.
The people in other countries that are supporting the project won't accept to use Russian as the base for this reconstruction, although they may support the idea of reintroducing features from the Old Slavonic language. They would then create a variant that would be different from the variant being built in the far Siberia, and so they would create things like uk-chu in Ukrainia or ge-chu in Georgia, which will remain unofficial dialects until they get a true population. For now, those theoric constructions are NOT living languages. Verdy P 16:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, in real dialects of the Chaldons and in literary form in vlogota.com and other sites beyond LJ. Do you want to say that Chaldons do not exist or that volgota.com do not exist?--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 21:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think that http://samir74.livejournal.com, http://volgota.com/ and User:Yaroslav Zolotaryov are same person. Please avoid self-references. It's still original research.
According to ru:Сибирский язык (still not NPOV): Chaldon-Siberian is project of constructed language ... Created in 2005. (Сиби́рский язы́к — проект искусственного языка, создаваемого на базе восточнославянских диалектов Сибири, в основном старожильческих говоров XIX века, с участием тюркских, монгольских и арабских заимствований. Возник в 2005.). I don't know how much common it has with language of Chaldons. Other linguists could answer this question. Please give any credible references.
EugeneZelenko 03:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
1. Chaldon dialect exists: http://www.yandex.ru/yandsearch?rpt=rad&text=%F1%E8%E1%E8%F0%F1%EA%E8%E9+%F1%F2%E0%F0%EE%E6%E8%EB%FC%F7%E5%F1%EA%E8%E9+%E3%EE%E2%EE%F0
2. The literary form exists: http://www.yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=%F1%E8%E1%E8%F0%F1%EA%E8%E9+%FF%E7%FB%EA&stype=www
3. Russian wiki lies for political reasons, hating any language except russian for siberian slavonians. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 04:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to http://uk.wikipedia.org/: "Сибірська мова — літературна мова, створена у 2005 році на основі східнослов'янських діалектів Сибіру, здебільшого старожитецьких говірок XIX сторіччя" (Siberian language is literary language based on dialects of Siberia", but russians they themselves consider their article not NPOV. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 04:36, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't lie for political reasons too. And please don't talk about politics here. According to be:Сыбірская мова it's still праект штучнай мовы (project of constructed language). From uk: article (from beginning to 29 січня 2006 version, excluding last days editing) напівштучна мова (half-constructed, as far a I understand Ukrainian). Again, where are references to external sources? --EugeneZelenko 13:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What lie, when russian wiki tried to write there "this is a project which is against russian state", and only protests of siberian and belorussian democrats stopped to do this? The history is available, and anybody can see this. The belorussian version just translates russian one. http://volgota.com, http://inache.net and other sites that promote - is it enough for external sources? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, moved to non-natural, though it is natural, and there is about 20 voices in support yet --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please move the request to Requests for new languages/Non-natural, because this is an artificial language. --Taichi - (あ！) 05:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is not, but it is possible to create the wiki if it will be considered artificial? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 06:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Really, we want to restore the ancient dialect of 17-18 centuries, and to make it modern language. I do not know how it can be classified, as natural or non-natural, but there are many enthusiasts of this project. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 19:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for as long as Yaroslav doesn't provide information from independent, neutral sources that indicates that this is a distinct and existing language (I can't find any at present). ARBE0 12:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I know it is hard to find and independent, neutral source in such topic - all russian sources denies the language with great energy, and all tha siberian separatists and some kazakhstan and ukrainian sources support it with the same energy. Well, if I will work with the wiki as if it would be an artificial language (request is already made), and it will be five or more contributors from native siberians or not, who will write in such wiki, will you oppose then? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 12:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, imagine, they write here "the whole language is invented by Yaroslav". What word, I wonder? "Odnako" or maybe "shanezhka" or maybe "basko"?))) And in their wiki they write "invented by Yaroslav to destroy Russia". Well, if they themselves want Russia to be destroyed, we shall destroy Russia. Long live Great Novgorod and free Siberia! --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 19:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have some time now. Links about the siberian language NOT FROM LJ or Volgota.com:
http://e-novosti.info/forumo/viewtopic.php?t=1819 (discussion about necessary of tukr words are they allowed or not)
Kazakhstan article http://www.dialog.kz/site.php?lan=russian&id=76&pub=1032 (positive)
Ukrainian article http://lab.org.ua/article/727/ (positive)
Latvian forum http://www.evangelie.ru/forum/archive/t-14778-p-2.html (positive reaction)
Ukrainian forums http://forum.sevastopol.info/viewtopic.php?p=134921&sid=e1bfb2dad69ccbe92f653f8e69a61352
http://www.novy.tv/ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20068&sid=6dfe6e7e13df8be971f34aa81aa365c5
(positive reaction, people reciting verses in siberian)
Russian forum http://www.disenteria.ru/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=7492&s= (some people from Siberia testify that they know this words and grammar)
Moscow forum http://forum.msk.ru/wap/news.wml?id=2200 (negative reaction, but the language considered natural)
All this sources do not belong to me, but all of them consider the language natural (the lie about it's non-naturality was completely made by russian nationalists), and all of them consider that the language is based on real dialects of old siberian people.
There are some sources not from the Internet, but perhaps nobody here read russian magazines.

--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 19:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think they are false? IP are from all the world, and they provide their emails. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
FYI 'svidomy' translates from Ukrainian as 'conscious'; 'conscientious', "сознательный" by Russian. Some bad people called 'ruspats' using it for offending Ukrainians. Амиго, приезжай в Украину, подарю тебе атлас мира, чтобы ты смог ощутить разницу между Украиной и Сибирью. Кстати, ты хоть там хоть там бывал? -- --Dmitry Petuk 11:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[User:Fanex|Dmitry Petuk][reply]
Amigo my wife is from Rivne (where I lived for three years) and right now I am writing from Feodosiya. However the point is not between Ukraine and Siberia, the point is: ARE YOU GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN CHALDON-SIBERIAN WIKIPEDIA? and ARE YOU NATIVE OF SIBERIA?. Because so far I am yet to see a Siberian IP in the list. So are you trying to use your conscience to prove that you are capable of starting a pointless wiki, because in such a case it really is a waste of conscience. BTW, thanks for the world atlas, but I have one already, although I must say when one sees Siberia in full he really could not take not to notice how small and near does Ukraine appear to its western borders ;). Kuban Cossack
In fact [1]. Bottom phrase is Считаю, что пост имеет прямое отношение к теме сообщества, так как сибирский язык в настоящее время не признается официально в России, но официально признается на многих сайтах украинского Интернета.
I feel that the post has direct relation to our community because the sibirian language is officialy unrecognised in Russia but is officialy recognised on many Ukrainian sites. That appears to be the only reason and it is fully anecdotical. Kuban Cossack
So do you believe that ukrainians have no rights to vote in wikipedia? Are the votes false because part of them are ukrainians?:-) --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 16:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And how many articles are going to be written in that language? Will those Ukrainians write them? Or will it be an empty encyclopedia? Also it is true that Ukrainians, particulary the IP adresses of those that voted do not originate from Sibirea. So if the request was put up by native Siberian people then I would have understood the handful of ehthusiasts argument, and supported them, but this I am sorry is nothing but a political stunt and a sham, which IMO is deragotory in such a sense.
Well perhaps if it does succeed, I wonder how long will it be before there would wikis in Surzhik, Trasyanka, our Kuban balachka or even UDAFF.net dialogue (because you can't really call that a language.)--Kuban Cossack
Really we need seven more:

1. Great Novgorod language wikipedia.

2. Pomor language wikipedia.

3. Don Balachka wikipedia

4. Tver language wikipedia

5. Pskov language wikipedia.

6. Great Vladimir language wikipedia.

7. Smolensk language wikipedia.

But siberian language is the most developed and have very large community (1200 articles made in 1,5 months)--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The wiki is tested now, and it is not empty. Why do you think it is relevant to the vote to be from Siberia or not? And to make Kuban balachka a full language and write wikipedia on it seems for me a good idea)) --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 15:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is the whole point, balachka is not a full language because its is a hybrid between Russian and 18th century Ukrainian. lso as it has no script or grammar and as it varies with locations (one stanitsa will pronounce the Гs as Hs, another as Gs or some will muffle them altogether) and generations (compare to how some old Cossacks speak and how some young children talk - BIG difference) so what is going to define it? Same with Surzhik and trasianka and even udaff... It would be nothing but a waste of time, as there is no printed literature in balachka let alone written sources. Moreover if official academies of Sciences from various states decree it as a dialect of Russian how are you going to make it a separate language? It is as rediculous as having different English wikis, and not American and British, but English and Scottish would be the comparison. Finally it is relevant that none of the votes originate from Siberia as it puts suspicion on just how widespread the project will become. Finally the fact that it has no international language code as opposed to tongues that are right now EXTINCT, I see very little prospect for it, and view this as nothing but a Livejournal.com April Fools joke. Kuban Cossack
But if the balachka had its own tradition, it would be a language. And we are just trying to make this tradition for siberian language, which has many cossack words too, because old siberians was some kind of mixture from cossacks, pomors, and aborigens. International language code can be achieved, and we work at this. About 10 of the voters were from Siberia, so your argument is irrelevant. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 20:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is not tradition, this is a language that is unrecognised and has no grammatical or linguistic structure. That is what is important. As for votes here we go:
  1. fanex, IP - Cherkassy, Ukraine
  2. vaenn, IP - Dnebrovsky, Dnepropetrovsk Oblast - Ukraine
  3. Alexei, IP - Ukraine
  4. Alex Yesod, IP - Moscow
  5. Helgi Litvin, IP - Germany.
  6. Siarhiej Bałachonaŭ IP - Gomel
  7. Oleg Dudnyk IP - Kiev, Ukraine
  8. rutopist IP - St. Petersburg
  9. Roman Baiduk IP - Kiev (actually some of the IPs look so similar in numbers that it makes me want to really wonder how many real users there are...)
  10. Aleksej Tajlakov IP - Tomsk (1st Siberian author)
  11. Pavel Levushkan IP - Latvia
  12. Steel Archer IP - Ukraine
So ONE native Siberian editor. Rydel is Belarusian, Nefis whose user page is deleted [2]. Kivan, whose strong nationalistic russophobia is not a valid reason for a wikipedia as it will immediately question the future neutrality. So where are your Siberian voters? Finally why is it 33 when I count 16 supporters, of which only one is confirmed Siberian. Kuban Cossack
Nickitos, Baznica, Kivan, I, Misha - all are from Siberia. Just see voting in non-natural section. I summarize votes in non-natural and natural sections, because it is all the same for us, if the lang will be considered natural or not, and I appealed to the ours vote in non-natural section because it is more likely to be successful. And there are about 10 siberians. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 08:51, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


This "proposal" should be classified as vandalism. This language is not real people! What next, should we legalize Marklar from South Park too?

P.S.: My meta account is new, but my en Wiki account is my main one, don't forget this please :))
  • oppose, enthusiasm is no proof of language and no reason for wikipedia section. --Irpen 07:45, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Oppose, there are no 5-10mln of speakers, where the hell did you digged them out? Siberia population is 20mln, where 80% are Russians and most of them came to Siberia durring Soviet urbanisation of Siberia. Elk Salmon 08:17, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I consider every northern dialect speaker as speaker of siberian --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 18:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You could consider as much as you want. But they should consider your language before opening Wikipedia on it. --EugeneZelenko 14:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And Sberıa ıs not only SFO, but SFO + UFO + DFO, about 40 mln, 25% sons of the old siberians. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 19:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Far East is not Siberia and as well as Ural. And where is figure 25% from? Just your fantasy? This is not language, not even dialect, but just slang of several people. Elk Salmon 23:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
About Ural for example read the article "Siberia" in english wiki. The map there covers Ural and northern areas of UFO. Siberian goverments of 1918 considered Far East as part of siberia. Putin's SFO is not Siberia, just modern demarkation. About the percentage read: "По подсчетам новосибирского ученого В.Н. Курилова, "удельный вес потомков русских старожилов в современном населении Западной Сибири может быть оценен в 15–20%". Этот вывод не кажется справедливым, так как русские старожилы не исчезли физически, более того, как показывает исследование современного этнического самосознания русских сибиряков, современные жители Сибири являются прямыми наследниками старожильческого населения, поскольку унаследовали от них этническую идентичность" http://ethnography.omskreg.ru/page.php?id=728
Yes, and comparing to this Russian internet slang (Жаргон падонков) is very popular ;) Edward Chernenko 18:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But Russian internet slang contains about 100 words and no grammar, and Siberian language 15 000 words and specific grammar. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 14:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. Small flash mob-like group of russian LJ users tries to promote their project in Wiki. --Boleslav1.
  • Strong Oppose -- I live in Siberia but I have never heard about any "Siberian language". This is a recently constructed language which exists only in LJ. Only several people use it. DonaldDuck
Еще услышишь. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 04:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Quite fine to hear this from Russian --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 16:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ничего удивительного. Возможно, вы путаете слова scum и scam. OckhamTheFox
Quite fine to see Russian (not Ukranian or American!) saying so about ru.wiki and it's users :) Edward Chernenko 18:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What have I say about ru.wiki? We like russian people dialects, but OckhamTheFox names this "Russian scam". But he himself is russian, maybe his vote is also "Russian scam"? It is fun)) And no word about ruwiki here))) --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 18:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why not 555 years, and what relation it has to the request? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. фтопку. I was born in Siberia and spent more than 17 years there. ru:user:Lone Guardian
  • Oppose, фэйк ru:user:Glaue2dk
  • Oppose. Apparently an artificially constructed language with no native speakers, a mixture of archaic Russian dialects of Siberia (composed by a bunch of total dilettants in Russian dialectology) with a large infusion of words from Arabic and Persian (sic!). The latter could be changed for Chinese or Pali "loans", were Yaroslav a Buddhist and not a Muslim. As a constructed language, this one does not seem to be known and employed enough so that to qualify for a distinct Wikipedia. Please, note that the article about this ideom itself has been deleted in en:wiki and is currently voted for deletion in ru:wiki. Wouldn't it be stupid on the part of Wiki-Community to proclaim a language not significant enough to be mentioned in Wikipedia at all and at the same time significant enough to start a special Wikipedia in it? P.S. This is my first edit at meta actually, but with 2500+ edits in ru:wiki and a few hundred in en:wiki, I think, I am not a complete newbie. -- Dmitry Gerasimov 18:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No arabic words in current version, some attempts to use them were a year ago, but failed. Still mentioned in 4 wikis --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 20:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If the language do not exist, by what language are written the articles in incubator?--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 12:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There could be some dialect of Russian in XIX century, but not distinct enough, neither it exists now. The project is proposed by persons who make some seditious insets in texts in Russian wikipedia, exaggerating the Siberian regionalism. Also the author failed to provide a reference to any reliable book (ISBN), so the language movement exists only in the Internet => original research. Siberiano 08:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Another russian comes to lie for political reasons. Were the words taken from the Internet, or from the books with ISBN? Just see 10 books in non-natural section from which the words were taken. And why if movement exists in Internet, it is OR? Who established this equality Internet=OR? About 20 articles about the language were published in the Net or not in the Net, so it can not be OR by definition. And about the russian wikipedia I do not understand you))) why your relation to the Siberian regionalism is relevant on question of language? The truth is that you hate siberian regionalism, and this is why you declare the language OR here. But you can not stop us, sibwiki is about 600 articles already, soon will be 1000, 2000, 3000, 10000. Everybody from us know that the words are real and we heard them from our fathers, who lived in Siberia for centuries. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 09:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have about 500 reliable sources about the siberian dialect. Just read the first 10 -

1. Блинова О.И., Мартынова С.Э. словарь образных слов и выражений народного говора. – Томск: Изд-во научно-технической литературы, 1997 – 206с.

2.Богословская З.М. Словарь вариантной лексики сибирского говора. – Томск, 2000. – Т.1 – 303с.

3. Вершининский словарь/ Гл. ред. О.И. Блинова. – Томск: Изд-во Том. ун-та, 1998-2001. Т.1-5.

4. Полный словарь сибирского говора/ Гл. ред. О.И.Блинова. – Томск: Изд-во Том. ун-та, 1992-1995. – т. 1-4.

5. Иванцова Е.В. Феномен диалектной языковой личности. – Томск: Изд-во Том. ун-та,2002. – 312с.

6. Словарь просторечных русских говоров/ Гл. ред. О.И.Блинова 1998. – 320с.

7. Раков Г.А. Диалектный идеографический словарь. – Томск. – изд-во Том. ун-та, 1998. – 345с.

8 Словарь русских старожильческих говоров Среднего Прииртышья. В 3 т. Томск, 1992.

9 Садретдинова Г.А. История заселения русскими Западной Сибири в связи с изучением сибирских старожильческих говоров. //Диалектологические и историко-лингвистические проблемы. Омск, 1999.

10 Даль В.И. Толковый словарь живого великорусского языка: в 4 т., М., 1989.

If you shall not stop your lie about siberian language and movement, I shall copy all the 500 sources here in the voting. You can see that siberians now write 100 articles a day, so we are very steady, and sure we shall copy the 500 sources here if moscovites will not cease to lie. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 09:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's you who lies. Nowhere in any Siberian city anybody speaks this language. You try to present a set of vocabulary deviations, dialects, for a single language. You mix together here the vocabularies of Siberian rural dialects and dialects of old believers who lived isolately. So, there is just a set of different words and different meanings that need explanation for a non-familiar, but not more. The titles say for everything: говор (patois). Why do you list here Даль В.И. (Dal V.I.), Russian dictionary? Siberiano 13:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So siberian words exist and combined together they form the language which was spoken in 19 century, and this language we want to restore. Some words are in Dal vocabulary. Dal considered ukrainian, belorussian and siberian as three "dialect" the most different from the official Russian. The sources testify, that the language of old Siberians was VERY different from the official Rissian. This is truth, but you say lie - "not distinct enough, neither it exists now". It exists in Siberian villages, and in hearts of Siberian intellegent people. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And stop that bullshit about regionalism. I'm a Sibeian regionalist. But you try to promote a fake language project for an unknown purpose. Siberiano 13:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, every moscovite here will soon declare himself siberian regionalist and siberian, for stop the development of the language)))) just read volgota.com and other sites about our purposes, and cease lie here. We shall do 1000 articles until the Siberian Independence Day (17 july), and 10 000 until the day of White-Green Army (29 january), and your lie will be of no effect. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 13:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
LOL at you, man and about those tales of language living in "hearts of intelligent people". I know the history well, but the language is your invention. And I'm not a moscovite, lier. You can't prove anything without trying to pesonally insult the opposed. Do not feed the troll. Siberiano 14:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It was your goal to begin personal insult here, because you came with a complete lie and can not proof it, and came with personal insults about exaggeration of siberian regionalism) Provide any reliable sources that you are not moscovite)) By your own logic, if you can not proof that you are siberian, but fight in the Moscow part, I think that you are moscovite)) and this is a complete LOL that you are siberian regionalist) to what group do you belong, who is the leader of your group, in what actions did you participate? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 03:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps every Russian voted "oppose", or there are some more Russians in the world? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 14:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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