Talk:CIS-A2K/Konkani Wikipedia

Request to create separate Konkani wikipedias for each of the script

Latest comment: 10 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

At CISA2K we have explored all the possible solutions for the multiple script issue faced by the Konkani Wikipedia and based on expert and community advice we feel the need to create separate Konkani wikipedias for each of the script is the ideal way. As Arabic and Malayalam scripts are not actively used and there is no active or potentially active community that may contribute to these script Konkani Wikipedias, we would like to approach Language Committee with a request to allow Konkani Wikipedias in three scripts. These are Devanagari, Romi and Kannada. CISA2K since July 2013 has worked with all people from all these three script using communities. Thus it is proposed to first make the Konkani Wikipedia in Devanagiri live as it has gained mass and momentum in terms of community and content and incubate Konkani Wikipedia in Romi and Kannada. I am making this request in my capacity as Program Director, CISA2K and as someone who has closed involved with the community in all the three scripts. You may share your opinions and suggestions below --Visdaviva (talk) 12:02, 8 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

This could work. It could also bring in some competition between the different script groups, which could then spur on enhanced greater participation in buiding useful Konkani Wikipedias. Fredericknoronha (talk) 10:51, 9 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

The biggest challenge, as I see it, is building up critical mass of contributors. Quite a few efforts have gone into making this happen, but we have to fight inertia, lack of tech skills among language experts, and the fact that many in this field are busy with many other activities in promoting the small langauge. Fredericknoronha (talk) 11:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Proposal: Different Wickipedia for different scripts

Proposal to create separate and independent Konknni Wikipedias for each script

Introduction

Kon Saraswat Konknni written in Kannada script. Out of these Romi Konknni and Catholic variety of Konknni written in Kannada script have many similarities in common.

Brief history of Konknni

Konknni was a spoken language and had no written tradition till 1510. In 1510 the Portuguese conquered Tiswadi (Ilhes) of present day Goa. In 1543 the Portuguese conquered Bardes and Salcette areas of present day Goa. After the arrival of the Jesuit missionaries in 1542, they took interest to learn the local languages. They composed Christian literature in verses in Marathi for the local converts and wrote prose in Konknni. missionaries used Roman alphabets to write both Marathi and Konknni because the printing technology they brought to Goa in 1556 was in roman alphabet. In 1556 they printed a Konknni book. Since then Roman script became the only script of Konknni in Goa till 1910.

Romi Konknni & Devanagari Konknni

Romi Konknni has the oldest tradition since 1556. It has preserved the linguistic features of 16th century Konknni. Its vocabulary, syntax, morphology, phonology, idioms, proverbs, phrases and pronunciation is to a great extent different from Devanagari Konknni. Romi Konknni and Devanagari Konknni are two distinct dialects. They represent two different cultures and world view. Devanagari Konknni is highly influenced by Marathi language. Romi Konknni has still preserved the nasal vowels which are rapidly losing in spoken Devanagari Konknni. The following examples will illustrate my point.

             	Romi Konknni                  	Devanagari Konknni     	Glosses
             	ambo                            amo                    	mango
             	kombo                           komo                    rooster
             	unddo                           unno                    loaf of bread
             	soimb                           soim'                   nature
             	kando                           kano                    onion
             	kunddo                          kunno                   husk
             	dont                            don't                   worm
             	khont                           khon't                  sadness

N.B. In Romi Konknni 'm' and 'n' are used in medial position to nasalize the preceding vowel. Proposal to create separate and independent Konknni Wikipedias for each script.

I strongly feel that we should have separate Konknni Wikipedias for each script because of the following few reasons:

There are very limited common skills across Konkani scripts.
This could cause confusion over who edits (and is entitled to edit) which script entry.
There is a lack of usage norms across the different scripts.
The diversity of the different scripts is best acknowledged by different Wikipedias.
To cope with the current differences among diverse script groups, it might be best to have separate Wikipedias, and then work for cooperation among these -- say kr.wikipedia.org (Konkani Roman), kd.wikipedia.org (Konkani Devanagari), kk.wikipedia.org (Konkani Kannada Script), as feasible.
The issue of who would become admins of the group could be a divisive topic if the different scripts are treated as one Wikipedia.
A little healthy rivalry among the different scripts may not be a bad thing, and could help each Wikipedia to grow and show what it is capable of.

Taking into consideration the linguistic features and the history of Romi Konknni as a linguist and researcher of Konknni, I strongly advocate to have a separate project for Romi Konknni and Devanagari Konknni in Wikipedia. This will help the Romi Konknni users to develop Romi Konknni in Wikipedia according to their vision and tradition; and similarly for Devanagri Konknni community too.

Thanks!

Dr. Pratap Naik, s.j.
B.Sc., B.Ed. M.A. (Linguistics), M.Phil. (Linguistics), Ph.D. (Linguistics)
Published books: 30 in Konknni (Roman script, Devanagari script and Kannada script)
Jesuit House
Municipal Garden East
Post Box 112
Panaji, Goa - 403 001, INDIA
E-ID: <pratapnaiksj@gmail.com>

Further request on different wikis

In addition to the issues already mentioned above, I would like to point out a few more ones:

1. What is known as 'Devanagari Konkani' is actually the Antruz dialect of Goa. This has a number of differences with other dialects and this is already mentioned in this discussion.

2. What is known as 'Romi Konkani' is the dialect of Bardez, Goa. There is another dialect in Goa known as Saxxti. This is quite different from Bardez but the Saxxtigars use Bardez dialect for literature.

3. The case of 'Kannada Konkani' is totally different. There are two different dialects that use Kannada script. One is the Saraswat community of Karnataka and Kerala. This dialect has several distinguishing features like end-vowel elision in connected speech which makes it incompatible with other dialects. The other dialect is that of the catholics of Mangalore. Even though the two communities use the same script and live side-by-side, they don't share their literature.

4. Saraswats of North Canara use Devanagari script adding to the confusion.

5. Mangalorean Catholic Konkani is descended from Bardez dialect. Hence there are a lot of similarities and with a little bit of training, Mangalorean catholics can indeed write in Romi Konkani. However the amount of literature in Kannada script far exceeds Romi and Devanagari put together.

6. Southern Saraswat Konkani descended from Saxxti. But the two dialects are very very different.

I therefore propose that there should be FIVE wikipedias not three. I write them below:

1. Antruz Konkani (Devanagari) 2. Bardez Konkani (Romi) 3. Southern Saraswat Konkani (Devanagari) 4. Southern Saraswat Konkani (Kannada) 5. Mangalorean Catholic Konkani (Kannada)

The current Wikipedia is a disorganized mess. There is no option for kannada and yet I see articles (e.g Mangalore) written in that script. When I attempt to create an article in Romi, I get edit suggestions and tooltips in Devanagari. The only acceptable solution is different Wikipedias. I do see differences in Arabic as well as Punjabi wikis. Why not Konkani?

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