Talk:Community Wishlist Survey/Future Of The Wishlist

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Renaming the Wishlist

We’re renaming the Wishlist, and we want to rename it with you. Please read the announcement and propose names if you have any below.

Learn more

–– STei (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Come on. Please do not abuse our time any more. Theklan (talk) 06:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Feature Forge –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Novem Linguae this is an interesting name, and we thought of something similar especially because "forge" signals building which is our ultimate goal. Still, it might lead to some confusion with ToolForge, and we don't only want to work on new things. What other ideas might hold onto these principles? JWheeler-WMF (talk) 19:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Community Wishlist Survey –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

+1 I don't see what's wrong with the current name. Sohom (talk) 07:25, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Community Kaizen – wikt:kaizen is Japanese for "continuous improvement" and "change for the better". It's a word most would have to learn, but I think it's meaning says a lot about how we strive to be diverse. It's also just fun to say! :) — MusikAnimal ^talk 19:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

−1, lame orientalism. Nardog (talk) 10:33, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

+1, sounds fun. Hakimi97 (talk) 17:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

It's just a generic word for "improvement". I cringe every time it's used in a way that pays lip service to the same culture that spawned karoshi. Nardog (talk) 19:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

If this happens I quit forever. I deal with enough continuous improvement lean six sigma in my work life. Please don't import it to my hobbies too. Now pardon me as I take a gemba walk to figure out some poka yoke. Let's not use a bunch of Japanese words just because Toyoda is Japanese and it feels cool to say we have green belts. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:44, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your update. I understand the reason why renaming, but it is unnecessary as "Community Wishlist Survey" this name has been is use for several years and it is a familiar name to the broad community. --SCP-2000 04:52, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Alternative: Community Tech Needs survey or Technical needs survey (which was used on Commons before), if you really don't want "wishlist" this term. SCP-2000 04:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

@JWheeler-WMF: What was #Conversation 1: Defining a wish all for if you're ditching "wishlist" anyway? What will what used to be called a wish be called going forward? (If that also depends on the new name for CWS, maybe shouldn't you start with deciding what to replace "wish" with first?) Nardog (talk) 12:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I should have been more clear. The term "Wish" leads to false hopes, confusion, and frustration. Especially as the Community Tech team has historically been the "granter" of wishes, and we cannot respond to all wishes.

As for the replacement term, we think "ideas" are more representative and have a more positive light than "wish." JWheeler-WMF (talk) 19:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I think Community Wishlist Survey is good enough. If the name is too long and needs it to be short and simple, then something like Wishhub probably will do. Hakimi97 (talk) 12:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

"Hub" this term should not be used as it means organizational units in the movement. SCP-2000 16:19, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Community Requests — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 13:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Community Ideas --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Technical Requests (although I do also like Kaizen above) — Sam Wilson 14:59, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

The name is such an institution. A wish is a great positive word, denoting hope that people have when participating. And usually community tech has been able to fulfil this hope. The word ideas is more non-commital. Femke (talk) 13:15, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Tech Wishes. Or, if you feel wish does not cover Focus Area concept: Tech Needs or Tech Solutions. I would keep it short, “Wikimedia Opportunities registry” looks too long in my opinion. -- Pols12 (talk) 14:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I like your "Tech Needs" idea, @Pols12, and since you've suggested it, I assume that it will be very easy to translate. Perhaps "Community Technical Needs", to differentiate it from developer needs, third-party needs, my own favorite request, etc.? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm quite a techie but I feel that including 'Tech' in the name will be off-putting to some folks whose participation we need. We have to remember there's a user-oriented, non-techie side to many an idea. StefenTower (talk) 22:25, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this in principle. The current process leans heavily towards a technical audience, and to build the best user experiences, we also need to accommodate the needs of less technical people. JWheeler-WMF (talk) 01:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

But if we don't specify that this is a technical project, then we can expect people to think that all requests are fair game. I need my account unblocked, I need a policy changed, I need someone to help me at this article where everyone else has the wrong answer... WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:27, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I support maintaining the existing name as it is both descriptive and familiar. Dramatically changing the underlying process already makes the process significantly difficult for folks to adjust to. Changing the name makes it more obscure and harder for people to find. I'd suggest using this time to make the new process as thrilling and synergistic as the old process was. StefenTower (talk) 22:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

And if we ever entertained changing the name, that can take place after the new process has gelled. I'd hate for us to make everything new and unfamiliar right from the start. Bridge the gap, even if superficially. StefenTower (talk) 22:28, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I'm curious what about the old process was thrilling and synergistic, so we can hold onto some of these qualities in the newer system. JWheeler-WMF (talk) 01:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Just seeing this now. I believe I explained that part in a previous discussion regarding the end of the old process, but I don't know where to find it right away. StefenTower (talk) 08:23, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

OK, here it is. StefenTower (talk) 08:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Community feature requests - says what they are and where they come from. Tag everything in phab with that and put it on a board. — xaosflux ^Talk 22:21, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

+1. Surprising a process looking for a title that valued "Participation" and "Collaboration" came up with 3 ways to remove the Community. This proposal is clear and understandable. CMD (talk) 01:27, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Small concern: feature requests is only one type of software work, and is at risk of unintentionally excluding software maintenance like bug fixes and refactoring. Community software requests might get around this, although suffers from being a very plain title. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:03, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Keep the same name, or my second choice is 'Community feature requests - but wishlist really does capture what it is, and keeping community in the name is important.Newystats (talk) 10:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I have attempted to draft a more useful reply to this multiple times but have come up empty. "Community Wishlist" is already well understood, and arguing/voting about changing the name is not a good use of time. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 03:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

+1 to "Community Wishlist". It doesn't need completely renaming. Renaming things can create more confusion, because lots of things will still refer to the old name and there's no continuity. The suggestions on Community Wishlist Survey/Future Of The Wishlist/Renaming all sound like marketing nonsense. The most I would do is drop "Survey" from the end. - Nikki (talk) 08:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

This is called Feature Requests pretty much everywhere else in the world and I don't see the need to go all marketing-speak on it. Don't waste time reinventing the wheel. Levivich (talk) 04:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

The current name, Community Wishlist Survey, is perfect. If the name must be changed, choose something short – “registry” is terrifying and bureaucratic. TNT’s “Community Requests” is good too, as is “Feature Requests”, but I seriously question the decision-making process that determined this needs to be renamed. Toadspike (talk) 07:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

My name suggestion: Phishlist. A fun play on words on "wish" and Wikimedia's Phabricator with it's "ph" prefix (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/). There's no negative connotation or even an entry on Urban Dictionary https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=phishlist. The only concern might be a confusion with the social engineering term "phishing". But otherwise, many "fish"-related logos or play on words can be used with a "phishlist", creating nets for wishes on the "phishlist", setting "fishing lures" for wishes (like a call for proposals name), etc. Erictleung (talk) 23:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

• Wish McWishlist 12.75.41.67 04:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

  Knuckles the Echidna would name it "Wish McWishlist". -- Sleyece (talk) 19:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Bugs & suggestions or Bugs and suggestions, etc... which comprises of the Fifth Point of the so far reached consensus and would allow to harmonize with the Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Bug reports and feature requests /overwrite it. Respublik (talk) 13:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Without a doubt ""Community Wishlist"--Der.Traeumer (talk) 15:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

• Technical ideas, proposed above, would be ok, if the objective is to remove the word "wish". The three initial proposals are completely inadequate because they're way too broad, unless the team also wants to handle opportunities and collaboration extending beyond technical work (e.g. proposals for the annual plan, proposals of WMF bylaws changes, collaboration ideas for chapters, opportunities for outreach by affiliates). I don't really believe that dropping the name "wish" helps in any way with the stated purpose, however. Nemo 16:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
• Perhaps there are two pieces: –SJ talk  20:13, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
  1. A Community Priority Queue (or "priority development queue"🏎️💨) which captures aggregate community priorities over time, and isn't done from a blank slate each year.
  2. A Community Wishlist / Community Tech Survey (I still prefer the original name, also used by smaller parallel initiatives in individual communities, which could federate in) which highlights current needs, new ideas, and is used to update to the PDQ.

Community Wishlist Survey is now Community Wishlist

Just in case you missed the renaming vote and discussions, please note that based on your feedback, we will keep the 'Community Wishlist' and remove 'Survey'.

Please read more about the renaming, check out the vote results and learn more about the re-opening of the Community Wishlist on July 15, 2024, in our latest update. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 20:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

The Community Wishlist is re-opening July 15, 2024

Here’s what to expect, and how to prepare.

Hello everyone, the new Community Wishlist (formerly Community Wishlist Survey) opens on 15 July for piloting. I will jump straight into an FAQ to help resolve questions you may have:

Q: How long do I have to submit wishes?

A: As part of the changes, Wishlist will remain open. There is no deadline for wish submission.

Q: What is this ‘Focus Area’ thing?

A: The Foundation will identify patterns with Wishes that share a collective problem and group them into areas known as ‘Focus Areas’. The grouping of wishes will begin in August.

Q: At what point do we vote? Are we even still voting?

A: Contributors are encouraged to discuss and vote on Focus Areas to highlight the areas

Q: How will this new system move wishes forward for addressing?

A: The Foundation, affiliates, and volunteer developers can adopt Focus Areas. The Wikimedia Foundation is committed to integrating Focus Areas into our Annual Planning for 2025-26.

Focus Areas align to hypotheses (specific projects, typically taking up to one quarter) and/or Key Results (broader projects taking up to one year).

Q: How do I submit a wish? Has anything changed about submissions?

A: Yes there are some changes. Please have a look at the guide.

I hope the FAQ helped.

You are encouraged to start drafting your wishes at your pace. Please consult the guide as you do so. Also if you have an earlier unfulfilled wish that you want to re-submit, we are happy to assist you draft.

Start your draft (see an example I have), don't hesitate to ask for support. Send me a link to your draft/sandbox via Meta email to help/review it. Alternatively you can leave the link in the Drafts List below.

More on this topic

Drafts List

• User:STei (WMF)/Sample Wish Make it easier for newcomers to create their first article (Sample) –– STei (WMF) (talk) 10:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

This comment is to add a signature so the subscribe button works for this heading. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know if I'm getting this right. If we propose a wish, have enough votes and momentum, and the Foundation agrees that we are right somehow (because there's no deadline for voting)... it will be added to be done in... at least one year, but maybe two? Am I right? Theklan (talk) 15:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Theklan - Once you propose a wish, it will be made public to the technical community and WMF for comments. The Foundation will look for patterns between wishes - typically a shared problem - and propose Focus Areas. Volunteers can vote on Focus Areas to signal interest and inform prioritization, and then the Foundation, an Affiliate, or volunteer developers can adopt this Focus Area.

There isn't a set "timeline" for a Wish, in part because wishes come in all shapes and sizes, and some wishes may better articulate a user need than others.

Happy to chat further about this if there's additional confusion. Our goal, for the Wishlist in 2024-5, is to: By the end of December 2024, the new Wishlist better connects movement ideas and requests to Foundation P+T activities: items from the Wishlist backlog are addressed via a 2024-5 KR, the Foundation has completed 10 smaller Wishes, and the Foundation has partnered with volunteers to identify 3+ areas of opportunity for the 2025-26 FY. JWheeler-WMF (talk) 16:57, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

What does KR mean here? Femke (talk) 18:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Key result in the annual plan JWheeler-WMF (talk) 18:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Reopening discussion

Something that doesn't seem clear to me is editing of a wish. I would prefer to accept comments but do the editing on my wish myself (outside of strict technical fixes), unless, of course I have agreed for specified others to help with it. Idea integrity could become an issue with freewheeling editing access. I'd like to be able to say "Comments welcome, but I would like to maintain editorial control". Thoughts? StefenTower (talk) 08:52, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey @StefenTower thanks for the comment. This is a tough call, as some people in the communities prefer to collaborate whereas others seek to write a wish and have it be "done."

Your suggestion of "comments welcome" sounds like a great disclaimer that you can add when you write your wish. For future versions of the Wishlist, we're evaluating a "draft mode" of Wishes for collaboration, and then a submit mechanism which would more or less only allow commenting. JWheeler-WMF (talk) 16:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm all for collaboration, but at the same time, like in community discussions, I don't want others directly editing my words, potentially changing their meaning to something I did not intend. Collaboration still happens with folks leaving comments and me taking them into consideration to make edits to the idea. Frankly, if someone edits my idea even one time without my agreement, that will sour me on participation. StefenTower (talk) 03:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Past wishes

A number of popular ideas have been proposed in the past, and remain valid today, but have not been reposted every year. Given the value in having a surge of collective energy around ideas w/ active advocates, is there an expected way to help contributors see popular perennial requests as a source of inspiration for this process? –SJ talk  00:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sj all previous wishes are still accessible, and moving forward, new wishes will appear in our list. I agree that reviewing other's wishes are a source of ideation and collaboration, and hope we'll continue to keep this momentum. JWheeler-WMF (talk) 00:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Are you only asking about 'inspiration in the process of submitting new proposals in the Community Wishlist' in particular?

I think it would be best if one had a campaign to attract volunteer developers and/or facilitate closing of wishes/issues (such as via badges and/or bounties and/or a leaderboard according to e.g. issue story points × impact/support and generally actively calling for volunteer devs to join) where no year's wishes are prioritized/emphasized over any other's – e.g. a good thing to link is this and maybe these lists could be combined somehow (possibly transclusion). Moreover, one could put greater consideration of the years a much-needed feature has remained open (such as adding sortability to table columns in the app open since 2017 or cats on mobile since 2010) which could also balance out the larger visibility and/or greater energy behind recently proposed ideas. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:07, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

New wishlist notice box wording

As of a few days ago, {{Community Wishlist Survey/Future of the Wishlist Box}} reads,

..."For piloting"? That I have to ask what that means feels like a bad sign for the goal of improving communication with the community, but: What does that mean? Nothing I've seen in any of the other discussions indicated that this was a pilot program (if that's what the term is even referencing), the other communication indicated that it's all hands on deck, full speed ahead. FeRDNYC (talk) 05:12, 12 July 2024 (UTC)