Talk:Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Announcements

Proposed list of tools

See the announcement at Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Announcements#Proposed list of tools

• The list looks reasonable and all members of the U4C were elected in due process, proving the community's trust. I would be  Support. Nadzik (talk) 20:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
• Seems reasonable, 3 of these are generally given to (* all users), 5 are "view only" normally included in sysop; 2FA is no big deal; (abusefilter-hidden-log) is the only stretch in to an item that is normally just for oversighters -- however for those that don't know better this specific log doesn't support revision deletion, so if it has to be hidden this is the only way to hide it currently. LAdmin on meta seems fine for the purpose - should use a special expiration equal to the elected term, even if over 1 year. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
• No objection, but just curious what specific tasks you expect to use admin on Meta for. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 00:20, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  Managing users in U4C space and translation admin activities are the two that are on my mind. Barkeep49 (talk) 00:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  I would prefer that translation adminship not be granted without a request for translation admin, for basically the same reasons as Meta:Requests for comment/Change to WMF staff user rights policy. Especially since the skillset of properly preparing a page for translation has little to do with anything else. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 01:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  Then the permissions need to be fixed. As it stands I do not see a reason why these members cannot do translationadmin stuff as well for U4C pages. Leaderboard (talk) 03:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  To build on what leaderboard says the charter section linked does give the U4C broad rights about what tools it can have. However, I am certainly thinking about the broader point being made here (just because we can request it doesn't mean we should). Barkeep49 (talk) 15:29, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not disputing that the Charter gives the U4C the ability to grant itaself translation adminship. I'm saying that the community requirements for translation adminship these days amount to "do you know how the Translaste extension works" and U4C members are no more likely to know how it works and hence be qualified than anyone else, and lots of messes have been made in the past by people without sufficient understanding of translate syntax marking incorrectly prepared pages for translation. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 15:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  In my opinion, being on the U4C probably would mean that the person is more cautious when it comes to technical abilities, but I get your reasoning and your point. Which is why I decided to request it through the community process :)

  On another note, I think we can initially just propose limited adminship within the scope of imposing partial blocks from U4C related pages, deleting/undeleting U4C related pages and other types of U4C related administration if required, for us to have some level of limited control on e.g. comments on public case pages. 0xDeadbeef (talk) 13:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

  I think the concern here is that using translationadmin without actually learning how to use it properly can (and has been) disruptive, this is generally due to lack of training or errors than malintent. Gaining TA access naturally is a fairly low bar, and coupling it with a different group could lead to the rather unpleasant scenario of local project blocks on those disruptively using it (as it can't just be revoked). My suggestion is that committee members that actually want to work with those functions learn them and just ask for the access directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:04, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

• I would think that just like ombuds, the U4C members should have the ability to view suppressed revisions (both normal revision-delete and oversight-level suppression)? I could also see a case for global CheckUser for the same reason. Limited adminship on Meta is sensible. Leaderboard (talk) 03:45, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  Given that issues with OS / CU are handled by Ombuds, I can't imagine many U4C cases where access to suppressed revisions or CU logs is necessary? We could add the necessary permissions temporarily if/when the need arises. Johannnes89 (talk) 05:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  I thought OS/CU would be required in the course of U4C's duties (for example, to investigate alleged abuse or sock puppetry of an admin). Leaderboard (talk) 07:12, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  Ombuds Commission (OC) reviews whether a user has used the CheckUser (CU) or Oversight (OS) tools in compliance with the policy. Actions such as blocks, bans, warnings, or other measures taken based on information obtained from the CU tool are not within the OC's scope. However, CU or OS access may be required for Committee if an appeal or case involves CU data or if an alleged edit has been oversighted. —MdsShakil (talk) 15:43, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  We'll have to see how it really turns out but I am not anticipating the same kind of OS/CU need for the U4C as enwiki ArbCom has. But also our philosophy has been to try and be (small c) conservative with this request. If we find we need more tools, the charter obviously allows us to ask for more - I can also see additional tool requests for certain cases. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:27, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

• If there are U4C cases involving users without an account (or users editing logged out) you might want to add ipinfo and checkuser-temporary-account in order to deal with temporary accounts. The same permissions are given to global rollbackers and similar global groups. --Johannnes89 (talk) 05:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)