Talk:User language/2007

From Meta talk:Babel templates

Lang attribute

テンプレートの本文にはlang属性を付けるべきでは? / It should acquire lang attribute to the text of the template with? --kahusi - (Talk) 02:21, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm. Without lang attribute they seem to work here and there. But I don't oppose to add/put lang attribute. Would you like to manage them?

なくてもここでもコモンズでも機能しているように見えますが、付記に反対はしません。面倒を見ていただけますか？--Aphaia | WQ2翻訳中 | talk 06:48, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Transwiki history

This attempt was started on Wikimedia Commons and this page incorporates a copy of 01:31, 11 Feb 2005 revision of Commons:Commons:Babel. The following Commons users contributed to that page: A-giâu, Aurevilly, Biekko, Briséis, Chris 73, Christian List, Dbenbenn, Farside, Guillermo Romero, Javier Carro, Kjell André, Nadavspi, Mschlindwein, Paginazero, Pybalo, Rui Malheiro, Shizhao, WeFt, Wikibob, Xillimiandus and some anoymous contributors.

User: pt

The template for User:pt is broken.

Color agreement

Hi everybody!
Just a couple of questions: Is here exist an agreement about coloring Babel language templates? If it is so, can we change some template colors in our respective Wikipedias?
Best regards,
CUADRADO ORTIZ, Juan Carlos
Lima, Monday, May 09, 2005.

There is no written agreement: only convention (blue for 2nd or foreign speakers, green for native (1st language) speakers). I prefer consistency but not oppose to modify them. I recommend you however not to choose colors already used ;-) --Aphaia | Translate Election | ++ 04:43, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Suddenly an idea came to me, after I saved my message. Do you mean perhaps to use different color set for a certain language in which the project in question is running? i.e. set of orange and yellow for Spanish on Spanish project. If so, I think such modification would be quite helpful on local projects. --Aphaia | Translate Election | ++ 04:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Aphaia.
Thanks por answer me at once. You've catched it. I meant, in fact, that you observed. I'm trying to use red and gold for Spanish language in Wikipedia en Español. There is a discussion about my changes, if you can read Spanish.
Thanks you again by your advice.
Best regards,
CUADRADO ORTIZ, Juan Carlos
Lima, Tuesday, May 10, 2005.

If you take the template colours from the flag of some coutry, it implies that the all the people in that country speak the same language, and the language isn't used elsewhere. If you use the colours of the Spanish flag in the Spanish language template, you actually force Chileans to say that they are Spaniards. This was already said in the discussion in the Spanish Wikipedia, though. -Hapsiainen 15:05, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm if you think I took those colors from Spanish flag, you misunderstood. yellow and orange were chosen as warm colors in very opposition to blue as cool one and green as neutral. Spanish people choose red orange, not colors I suggested, but beautiful. Red, blue and green consist WMF logo, and it is a nice idea those templates are based on those three colors, I think. --Aphaia | Translate Election | ++ 15:53, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Personal meta templates ?

Hi. I have multiple acccounts on various wikis and I was wondering whether I could create my own personal meta template (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Oxag) to insert on all my personal pages instead of having to update them one by one. It seems technically possible to do that but I am not sure:

1. how to call for it: {{meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Oxag}} ?
2. if that would be accepted, or considered a wiki-faux-pas.
   

Can someone in the know tell me what they think? Thanks. Please reply either below or here
— Oxag 01:17, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

It is not possible, see Help:Template#Use_of_templates_across_projects.--Patrick 10:48, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Why categories?

Sorry, but why to use categories? The list of Wikipedians who uses a certain language can be generated by What links here. Even addition to two categories is duplicate. If the templates like user en-1 or user en-2 were generated hierarchically from the general template for the language, the list of Wikipedians who speak the language at any level, is a matter of a single click on What links here. The categories do not bring in this case any new functionality and IMHO only cause problems.

Using categorie has advantages as below:

1. Sorted alphabetically - But what links here not.
2. Category can contain more information that "Whatlinkshere" - the latter provides us only 500 of linked file.
3. Template is slightly burdened to the server - hence some editors don't like to use it as template but substities. Other users don't like to put the tags but only use categories.
4. Categories can contain instruction how to use. Whatlinkshere not.
5. Categoties have their own hierarchy and you can browse through them. On Whatlinkshere you can't.

Shortly categories are more frexible and have many advantages.

--Aphaia | Translate Election | ++ 10:17, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

subst?

We are still told that "subst" helps the servers. But when I faithfully followed the instruction, some of my templates didn't work; and my knowledgeable colleagues on "mi" have made them work by removing the "subst". Would the people concerned for the servers please explain exactly what a good alternative would have been? Then maybe I can follow the server-saving method in the many more templates I may have to create. (I asked this on "en" a week ago; no response.) Robin Patterson 04:10, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

technical requirements

Hi,

I have some questions about the process of using babel templates in other languages

1. From what I see in different wikipedias, it seems to me that the templates are copied into other wikipedias (like de.wikipedia.org). They are not taken from commons. Is this correct? Is this supposed to stay
2. In other wikipedias the templates follow the pattern "user de", so "user" is not translated. I have, however, found out that nl and fr translate the categories that are used in the templates. ("template:utilisateur_de"). Is there a technical requirement to have the template named "user_xx" and is it permissible to translate the category or does that break anything?

Kind regards HeikoEvermann 20:24, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)

The reason for copying from "en" instead of from "commons" is that the "en" was more advanced initially and therefore had more templates ready to copy. (I don't know if that still applies.) Not good in principle. But if they are the same as what will eventually appear on "commons" it shouldn't matter.

You can name a template anything you like and make it work. But if most contributors in a particular language would prefer an 11-letter word such as "utilisateur" to the 4-letter word "user" it may be better to go along with the non-English version. I tried "user" in at least one other language and made it work but then saw that it was a duplicate, so I think I abandoned it. Some language Wikipedias have their own version of "Template" and "Category" namespaces; many (including some big ones) stick with the English because it takes a bit of work to change.

Robin Patterson 20:16, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Udmurt template

Creation of the Udmurt wikipedia seems to be a good cause to create also the Babel-templates for Udmurt-speaking people.

Удмурт (Udmurt)

1. Со адями удмурт кылын ӧжыт вераськыны быгатэ

2. Со адями удмурт кылын гожъяны но лыдӟыны быгатэ

3. Со адями удмурт кылэз анай кылэз кадь тодэ

4. Со адямилы удмурт кыл – анай кыл

Word-by-word translation of sentences:

1. This human_being Udmurt in_language a_few speak can 2. This human_being Udmurt in_language write and read can 3. This human_being Udmurt language_it mother language_it as knows 4. This for_human_being Udmurt language – mother language --Denis Sacharnych 08:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Interproject policy proposal

I have drafted a proposal for an interproject Babel template standard at Interproject Babel template standardization (proposal). Please review the proposal and improve and/or comment on it. —Ilmari Karonen 17:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Delete?

Why are these templates not being deleted as divisive and polemic? Don't they divide up the community based on linguistic ability and foster ethnic cabals? 68.33.63.117 17:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

They are not divisive. We recognise our differences; and we use the templates to find quickly the best language to use when talking to someone else. Robin Patterson 01:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Multilingual users

As wikimedia has a need for translators for one language into an other I thougth it would be usefull to have a list of users who can speak more languages. See User:HenkvD/multilingual users how to use Babel templates for this. HenkvD 17:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Category inclusions

I noticed on my userpage that "User en" includes the user in Category:User en-N and in Category:User en. I understand that that is standard practice on other wikis, but it is the only template of the ones I checked that does so here at Meta. Not even "User es" or "User en-1" do so. I would be willing to make the necessary additions to all the templates if this was agreed to here, but if that is not what we want here, then let's take it off of the "User en" template as well. I think putting a "User de-4" user (for example) in both Category:User de-4 and Category:User de is useful, because that gives a complete list of everyone who speaks at least a little German under Category:User de. If they want a native speaker, they can look under the appropriate subcategory: Category:User de-N. Since I'm here in Mexico, feliz cinco de mayo a todos. --Cromwellt|talk 15:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Single Babel template

I have modified Template:Babel to cover every variation of Babel box (multiple columns, left & right aligned, variable size from 0 to 100 boxes, adjustable color and header/footer text, et cetera) which I have been able to find. I'd like to suggest that we work to migrate (or just redirect) the numerous 'Babel-1', 'Babel-2', 'Babel-3-Left', 'Babel-4-6', et cetera templates to this single 'Babel' template here and on all other projects so that users moving from one project to another can copy and update their Babel template and expect it to work consistently. We have a babel of Babels that ought to be simplified. --CBDunkerson 15:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Category: 0

What exactly is the point of having templates for someone who does not speak a language? Isn't it quite obvious you don't speak a language if you don't list it among your, well, spoken languages?? -- Totti (talk) 09:12, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You are right, there is basically no sence in writing "This user doesn't speak ... at all". But I myself have added 0-templates of languages I can understand some words of. Therefor I propose a text like "This user can hardly understand ..."--Joschi 11:22, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

This needn't be so literal, as the English-language expression "speaking a language" is a catch-all essentially indicating "having knowledge of..." without discriminating between reading/understanding (passive-receptive language) or speaking/writing (active-expressive language).-- Deborahjay 11:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I contend that there's significance to using the 0-template on one's User page: for instance, for the language of "another" Wikipedia as an Interwiki editor. It indicates I'll be conducting communication in a lingua franca (e.g. English or any of my higher-level Babel boxes). I contribute to pages based on content, not language, and I want to conduct a Talk page, edit history, and interact with other editors in ways that will make our collaborative activity more effective. -- Deborahjay 11:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Magical babel box

Okay, it's happened because I got angry at that someone who thought floating right the damn thing is compulsory. The result is much more than that: one template for any language and any level. Neat?

For the brave (and technically advanced) go on and check my page, user:grin, where they're included.

For the not so brave there's a short intro on User talk:Grin/babel.

All feedbacks are welcome, but please do notify my on my hungarian or english talk page, the former preferred.

(Oh and by the way it does not float. If someone want's to have it floated please create a fbabel template including this one in a floating div. I can create it for you hint hint.)

I hope you'll like it. --grin ✎ 22:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

slav-0 template

slav-0

Этот участник не понимает славянские языки. Ta osoba nie rozumie języki słowiańskie. Korisnik ne razume slovenski jezici.

How about creating "generic" templates ? I would welcome one for Slavic languages... a slav-0 that I imagine as ru-0+pl-0+sh-0 along the lines of the example at right:

Best regards, Ev 20:50, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Category recursion weirdness

I happened to stumble across this for en-4. I did not carry out a search to see if this is prevalent elsewhere, but category:User en-4 had recursion due to having an image of the userbox (via substing?) in it. I corrected it here by noinclude-ing some things but folks that spend time on these may want to check other instances. en-3 doesn't seem to have the problem, nor does de-4 but I did not exhaustively check... ++Lar: t/c 19:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Arabic Wikipedia

would anyone please inform me if there are templates for Arabic Wikipedia and Arabic Wiktionary as well related to Babel?

Ascending/Descending

On the Commons the whole thing is native language-descending. Her it is the other way round. And the complete Layout is different. Shouldn't we make them similar somehow?

Please join this Discussion here--Joschi 11:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)