Template talk:WMF-navigation

I reverted the current modifications because of

• its ineffectively huge size
• mutant logo - logo will be okay (though I don't understand its necessity) but it is not okay it covers and hide texts ; and logo which is not the foundation logo is a bad idea.
• lack of most useful links; we need them.

Shortly, the latest changes aren't totally unacceptable.

Any attempt to useful modification will be appreciated. --Aphaia++ 01:30, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Aphaia, the large logo was the asspuss vandal - not my work!

The template was reduced in size to make it easier to view and use - it now only lists the major sections.

Each sub-section (Board, Departments, Press etc) now have their own navigation templates, which allow navigation between those pages and then also back to the main meta WMF page.

This was done after several complaints on how hard it is to find things here - this should make it considerably easier! Dan100 09:20, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

As for logo, okay I accept your explanation. Before discussion I would like you to apologize me for your unfair accusation on my "personal" attack to you. I don't want to walk with anyone who is rude, specially people who has no ears to others complaint and labelled their opponents so fast and silly. Here I say briefly my view is in opposition to you. I don't welcome your changes and want to template as such which allows us to reach every important page with only one hop. No redundancy is welcome. --Aphaia++ 09:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

(Moved from my talk page Dan100) Okay, NOW I see what you've done here. That's even a pretty good idea... I like it. But if it wouldn't be for your explaination, I wouldn't even know that you're making submenus for each section. Once again, please, list on Template:Wikimedia what changes are you exactly doing, so Aphaia will be aware of them. I'm sure she'll understand, if you'll show her exactly what have you done so far, and how does it look. Datrio 09:05, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Dan's version is less useful. Pages like Board of Trustees no longer link to anything else Wikimedia related, only to Board-related issues, meaning I can't get from a Board page to a local chapters page, whereas with Aphaia's version I could do. Angela 09:35, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Angela, when people come here they're often looking for specific information quickly, and don't want to get lost in the spider's web of old tangled pages the current template lists. It might be good for you, someone who's been here since forever, but try to think like a newbie. Dan100 09:41, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

As I said on Datrio's page, I also think the longer version is much more useful, since our main problem is people being able to find information. We could possibly simplify a little bit by removing some links which are now less useful that a couple of months ago (example : elections). But generally, I really prefer the longer version. Which links do you think are not *really* important right now ? Anthere 09:42, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Dan links

• Wikimedia WMF page
• Official website
• Board of Trustees
• Budget
• Departments
• Local chapters
• Servers
• Press

Current's links

• Wikimedia : I wish that we update this page, and that it gives an overall good presentation of the foundation. It should stay here
• Official website
• Site feedback

• Board of Trustees - could be set in "organigramme
• Meetings
• Agenda
• Budget
• Election - could be removed

• Departments - could be changed in Wikimedia Foundation organigram which would contain another template with board, finance, grants etc... department
• Official positions - could be set in "organigramme
• Finance department - could be set in "organigramme
• Legal department - could be set in "organigramme
• Technical department - could be set in "organigramme
• Grants department - could be set in "organigramme
• Press department - could be set in "organigramme

• Local chapters
• Wikimedia Deutschland
• Wikimedia France
• Wikimedia Italia

• Stuff
• Wikimedia servers
• Partners and hosts
• Trademarks
• Domain names
• Logos

Erm, excuse me, but if this template "works", then why have people been complaining that information is so hard to find? Maybe, just maybe, it doesn't work? Dan100 09:51, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe not because of the template, but rather because of unsufficient pages (content unsufficient, or outdated, or just plain missing - see budget for an example) ant

There's too many pages - many have been abadoned. The fact they all remain listed hides the ones which contain content people want. Dan100 11:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Why would removing links make any pages easier to find? How is a newbie going to guess which page they need to go to to find links to a specific section? Angela 10:13, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Think about what a newbie wants to know. They don't want a list of the logos or stuff about past elections. They want to know who controls the foundation - the board, how the money is spent - the budget, and how the site works - the servers. Plus the press.

People have been complaining loud and clear that they cannot find this information. This suggests somewhat that the status quo is a failure. Dan100 11:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

by clarification of the organisation of the Foundation ? ant

I would guess another, and already existing attempt for navigation would be suggestive, See q:ja:Wikiquote:ウィキクォートへようこそ ("Welcome, newcomers in Japanese for jawikiquote). All project pages are ordered under one of each groups and newbiews are offered to read each five top pages. After skimming them, or at least giving a look for those five templates, newbies may find their aiming page. --Aphaia++ 11:04, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Alternative for improvement

Your glance at MediaWiki talk:Sidebar will be appreciated. I put my proposal for naviagion improvement. Thank you. Aphaia++

Think about this

Think about what people want to know:

• Who runs the Foundation - the Board
• Where the money gets spent - the Budget
• Who does what - the Departments
• How does the place work (nerd pages) - the Servers
• Anything local to me? - the Chapters
• I'm a journalist - Press

This results in this.

Have I missed anything there?

Put it another way: visit, say, Volvo Cars. Do they list links to the descriptions, prices, specs etc to every model from their front page? Of course not. Yet we do.

Why? Dan100 12:02, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

as said on the mailing list: all this info should be available from the foundation's public website at http://wikimediafoundation.org - nobody should need to go to meta to find this info here. --Elian 14:25, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Elian. I think you're confusing pages for the public, and pages for people who just want to know about the Foundation, with the mess of stuff that is on meta and aimed at the community of people already involved with the Foundation. Meta is more of a working space, so menus don't need to be newbie friendly, they need to be efficient. Angela 21:56, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed with Elian and Angela; the longer version is more useful and efficient; providing us a quick access. I am afraid Dan is totally confused with meta and wmf site. I can't figure why he need to request for the account of wmf to "improve meta", totally open wiki even to anons. --Aphaia++ 23:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry what? Being informative to the public is less than important than pandering to the cabal? Dan100 22:23, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

No, but the public should be using the Foundation wiki, not meta. If you try to make publicly useful, you're going to need to delete 50% of the content here. Perhaps we just need more prominent links from those pages telling them that this is a working space and to go over there for useful information. Angela 18:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Well thanks

Good to know the wiki spirit is alive on well - if you don't like someone's edit, just lock the template and ignore them! Dan100 22:22, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

It's not locked. I hadn't realised it ever was. Angela 18:28, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Datrio locked it two days ago when Dan and Britty started reverting each other. I unlocked it yesterday afternoon. Ant

{{WikimediaInc}}

I suggest use {{WikimediaInc}} instead of {{Wikimedia}} and redirect the content of {{Wikimediapro}} to {{Wikimedia}} (liki happens in all the Wikimedia Projects that uses the template {{Wikimedia}} (see the same template in Wikipedia