User talk:YShibata (WMF)/過去ログ1

2021Nov - 2022 April

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Minorax^«¦talk¦» 09:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

December 2021

Hello. Kindly refrain from using machine translation. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 09:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

And again, you're using machine translations. Please stop. Consider this to be a warning. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 12:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@YShibata (WMF), please list pages you need, I will jump in and do as much as I could, as the Grants topic is very interesting to me. I guess the hard part is that you are not supplied full list of Grants pages in ja, which you can't do without in order to let ja language communities realize and overcome their ethics/purism that volunteers should be unpaid to fulfill their tasks. I wish applications will be filed, grant(s) gained, to localise those meta pages they pointed out not yet translated. Anyway, as the Village Pump conversation revealed, you are needed and welcome. That is a great step forward to start everything. -- Omotecho (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

@Minorax, appreciate your patrolling, and let me show what is going on. Well, Meta shall become a true multilingual and inclusive space. I sense that made you come to talks with YShibata. No, I am not supporting MT outputs, but CX2 extension which we don't implement on meta. While YShibata is trying to facilitate jawp community where they are supporting/explaining Grants application system, I am keen to assist them to localizing those Grants pages, and have mended loose ends manually on those pages including which you have raised flag here.

My sincere wish would be an experienced contributor like you would guide how I can do and canvass translators to work on pressing translation targets, ie Grants program at this moment? (On the back of my brain, I know what a childish question that is.) Of course no MT output be justified. By letting facilitators go and talk to local communities empty handed/with English documents, I doubt what we are using our resources for. Makes me feel numb why I am translating Meta while juicy topics are there on jawp or WikiVoyage.

One thing I would like to add would be that as you see, the Grants Programs are drastically uplifted, expenditure made very large per average/past FY terms. Would you agree that we volunteers were not called upon to be prepared and work on those pages yet? Those contracted at Grants and Governance facilitation are helping the wiki communities understand how the restart of Grants Programs would benefit/expand projects. Then each facilitator with 20hrs/wk labor hour are desperate to prepare translation, talk to community, report to their work group, back and forth. A tall task is before us: to supply sufficient Meta pages in multiple languages for everybody, and it would be great facilitators and communities share our translation for productive discussion and progress. And projects will go on track with grants, for the sum of human knowledge. That's why you came here, and we are here for. (; Cheers, -- Omotecho (talk) 19:00, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

I believe that I've been really clear on not to use online tools to translate content here. This and this are clearly translated online. cc. @DBarthel (WMF): --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 14:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@MinoraxLeaving the "ドル＝$" was my mistake. But the sentences are not by the MT. The first "this" is not the just the MT did. I used DeepL as a draft. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 14:32, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax - Thank you very much for you caring that much and doing so much work on patrolling. Your feedback on mistakes in our work is highly appreciated and well received in the Movement Strategy and Governance team. We learn a lot by it and it very much contributes to all of us translators in the team to get better. That's the way a wiki community is supposed to work together, assuming good faith one to another.

Having that said, I regret that this continously goes along with unnecessary threats. Whenever we are made aware of a mistake, we will correct it right away, making the translation better, regardless of the actual workflow in use or personal preferences. I understand this to be the wiki-way and I would very much appreciate, if we could return to this way of doing things without threatening one another. All the best, DBarthel (WMF) (talk) 08:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@DBarthel (WMF) and YShibata (WMF): I generally set a higher expectation towards WMF employees and getting a little frustrated when the stuff I pointed out happens over and over again. That being said, I did not meant to threaten anyone and I apologise for that. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 14:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax: - Thank you very much Minorax for letting us know, I am very happy to hear that. And I agree totally: you have the right to set high expectations on us and we are working hard to fulfill them. Sometimes a little patience will help us all to get along better. Have a great day and thanks for all your work. DBarthel (WMF) (talk) 15:09, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
I believe that you've been reminded a couple of times to not use translation tools to translate content as they are either inaccurate or tend to ignore wiki markups. @DBarthel (WMF): Kindly advise. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 05:37, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax, many thanks. I've translated thousands/millions words including old pages today for ja community to catch up. It would be great if you kindly indicate which page you mention. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 06:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 amongst many others. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 07:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax, I appreciate your kindness in indicating pages. Inconsisy is from discussion among users. Leaving English among Japanese is to show readers the origin. This way is the outcome among main translators to avoid problems. Usually, my role is to show essential pages to be translated fast. Then another translator would notice what I did and edit my translations. Then other editors check the Japanese. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 07:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

From my POV, the links are clickable and linked via Special:MyLanguage, if a reader doesn't know what the translated content is, they can just simply click on the link. To add, quality of the translation is more important than the pace the pages are translated, why rely on others to check when you, as a native speaker, can translate the pages accurately. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 08:12, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

This isn't the issue of accuracy, @Minorax. I've received strong opinions from 2 sides, one is to keep Chinese oriented expressions thoroughly. The other is to use phonetic expressions.

The Japanese language is far from English linguistically, than Chinese. It means the traditional way can't express 100% meaning. But it also means older people are left. Most Wikis users seem elderly or very young. I can't judge. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 08:33, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

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Minorax^«¦talk¦» 09:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

December 2021

Hello. Kindly refrain from using machine translation. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 09:01, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

And again, you're using machine translations. Please stop. Consider this to be a warning. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 12:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@YShibata (WMF), please list pages you need, I will jump in and do as much as I could, as the Grants topic is very interesting to me. I guess the hard part is that you are not supplied full list of Grants pages in ja, which you can't do without in order to let ja language communities realize and overcome their ethics/purism that volunteers should be unpaid to fulfill their tasks. I wish applications will be filed, grant(s) gained, to localise those meta pages they pointed out not yet translated. Anyway, as the Village Pump conversation revealed, you are needed and welcome. That is a great step forward to start everything. -- Omotecho (talk) 18:24, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

@Minorax, appreciate your patrolling, and let me show what is going on. Well, Meta shall become a true multilingual and inclusive space. I sense that made you come to talks with YShibata. No, I am not supporting MT outputs, but CX2 extension which we don't implement on meta. While YShibata is trying to facilitate jawp community where they are supporting/explaining Grants application system, I am keen to assist them to localizing those Grants pages, and have mended loose ends manually on those pages including which you have raised flag here.

My sincere wish would be an experienced contributor like you would guide how I can do and canvass translators to work on pressing translation targets, ie Grants program at this moment? (On the back of my brain, I know what a childish question that is.) Of course no MT output be justified. By letting facilitators go and talk to local communities empty handed/with English documents, I doubt what we are using our resources for. Makes me feel numb why I am translating Meta while juicy topics are there on jawp or WikiVoyage.

One thing I would like to add would be that as you see, the Grants Programs are drastically uplifted, expenditure made very large per average/past FY terms. Would you agree that we volunteers were not called upon to be prepared and work on those pages yet? Those contracted at Grants and Governance facilitation are helping the wiki communities understand how the restart of Grants Programs would benefit/expand projects. Then each facilitator with 20hrs/wk labor hour are desperate to prepare translation, talk to community, report to their work group, back and forth. A tall task is before us: to supply sufficient Meta pages in multiple languages for everybody, and it would be great facilitators and communities share our translation for productive discussion and progress. And projects will go on track with grants, for the sum of human knowledge. That's why you came here, and we are here for. (; Cheers, -- Omotecho (talk) 19:00, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

I believe that I've been really clear on not to use online tools to translate content here. This and this are clearly translated online. cc. @DBarthel (WMF): --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 14:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@MinoraxLeaving the "ドル＝$" was my mistake. But the sentences are not by the MT. The first "this" is not the just the MT did. I used DeepL as a draft. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 14:32, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax - Thank you very much for you caring that much and doing so much work on patrolling. Your feedback on mistakes in our work is highly appreciated and well received in the Movement Strategy and Governance team. We learn a lot by it and it very much contributes to all of us translators in the team to get better. That's the way a wiki community is supposed to work together, assuming good faith one to another.

Having that said, I regret that this continously goes along with unnecessary threats. Whenever we are made aware of a mistake, we will correct it right away, making the translation better, regardless of the actual workflow in use or personal preferences. I understand this to be the wiki-way and I would very much appreciate, if we could return to this way of doing things without threatening one another. All the best, DBarthel (WMF) (talk) 08:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@DBarthel (WMF) and YShibata (WMF): I generally set a higher expectation towards WMF employees and getting a little frustrated when the stuff I pointed out happens over and over again. That being said, I did not meant to threaten anyone and I apologise for that. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 14:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax: - Thank you very much Minorax for letting us know, I am very happy to hear that. And I agree totally: you have the right to set high expectations on us and we are working hard to fulfill them. Sometimes a little patience will help us all to get along better. Have a great day and thanks for all your work. DBarthel (WMF) (talk) 15:09, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
I believe that you've been reminded a couple of times to not use translation tools to translate content as they are either inaccurate or tend to ignore wiki markups. @DBarthel (WMF): Kindly advise. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 05:37, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax, many thanks. I've translated thousands/millions words including old pages today for ja community to catch up. It would be great if you kindly indicate which page you mention. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 06:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 amongst many others. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 07:07, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Minorax, I appreciate your kindness in indicating pages. Inconsisy is from discussion among users. Leaving English among Japanese is to show readers the origin. This way is the outcome among main translators to avoid problems. Usually, my role is to show essential pages to be translated fast. Then another translator would notice what I did and edit my translations. Then other editors check the Japanese. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 07:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

From my POV, the links are clickable and linked via Special:MyLanguage, if a reader doesn't know what the translated content is, they can just simply click on the link. To add, quality of the translation is more important than the pace the pages are translated, why rely on others to check when you, as a native speaker, can translate the pages accurately. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 08:12, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

This isn't the issue of accuracy, @Minorax. I've received strong opinions from 2 sides, one is to keep Chinese oriented expressions thoroughly. The other is to use phonetic expressions.

The Japanese language is far from English linguistically, than Chinese. It means the traditional way can't express 100% meaning. But it also means older people are left. Most Wikis users seem elderly or very young. I can't judge. YShibata (WMF) (talk) 08:33, 10 April 2022 (UTC)