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Community Wishlist Survey 2016/Categories/Wiktionary

< Community Wishlist Survey 2016
Wiktionary
4 proposals, 40 contributors, 49 support votes



Allow multiple entries within each category

  • Problem: Sometimes, multiple entries within a category would be useful. For instance, on the French wiktionary there is a listing of French verbs that includes both the infinitive form (e.g. aimer) and a pronominal form (s’aimer). But which sort key should be given to the pronominal form? Equally valid arguments apply for a « aimer s » key and a « saimer » key. Ideally, the entry would appear twice in the category, under those two keys. There are other examples, such as proper nouns beginning with a definite article (e.g. Le Mans should be categorised under « Mans Le » and « Le Mans »).
  • Who would benefit: Wiktionaries, other wiki projects.
  • Proposed solution: Possibly add to the wiki software a magic word that can be used to specify a second (third, fourth, etc.) entry in a category’s index. Other wikicode approaches may be possible.
  • Phabricator tickets:

Community discussion

Hi Urhixidur - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Wiktionary page. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 02:01, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can accomplish this by categorizing redirects, can't you? Pppery (talk) 02:58, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, you can't, because we're talking about a single page appearing as two separate entries in a single categorical index. Using the Le Mans example, creating a redirect from Mans, Le could work if the redirect could be made invisible, but it's still a clunky solution. Urhixidur (talk) 17:18, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Voting – Allow multiple entries

  1.   Neutral --JB82 (talk) 01:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2.   Oppose The idea is not well-cooked. Huji (talk) 19:44, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Problem: On wiktionaries should be included many languages with many scripts. Many characters are not avaliable through keyboard. If I want to search words with characters j and e or their variants, search field offers je and JE, but not jé, jē or jẹ
  • Who would benefit: All wiktionary users
  • Proposed solution: Provide search engine which normalize all (latin) characters to their ASCII bases: ēěęèėéëêẹǝəẻė̄ẽềểễếệ and their uppercase siblings are all variants of e
  • More comments: there exists some list of replacements used with template {{Viz}} (See also) on cs. wiktionary
  • Phabricator tickets:

Community discussion

  • In many languages simply "normalizing" all latin characters would cause unwanted and unexpected effects. For instance in Swedish, the characters Ä, Å and A are considered not three variants of one letter, but three distinct letters. And in the Swedish keyboard layout there is a separate key for each of them – no modifier keys are necessary to type these characters (letters). A Swedish speaking user would not want the search term "ara" to be equivalent to "åra" or "ära". (The situation is similar in other scandinavian languages, in German, and in many other languages, I guess.) On the other hand, a user who does not speak Swedish and does not use a Swedish keyboard would probably appreciate "full normalization" when looking for something in Swedish Wiktionary or Wikipedia. So there has to be ways to decide which letters should be normalized and which should not, and when. /NH 19:28, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would like to second what NH wrote.
Also, in some languages / countries there are established transliteration rules for some of those Latin letters with diacritical marks. For example, in Germany, noone would want a search function to come back with words matching "a" when the search pattern was "ä", whereas returning words with "ae" (the transliteration of "ä") would be fine. Same for "ß" and "ss" etc. The list of possible replacements would depend not only on the target Wikipedia, but also on the selected frontend language in Preferences.
In addition to this, the behaviour could depend on a normally unchecked "[ ] approximate search" option in Preferences and in Advanced Search, and it could temporarily also be turned on automatically, if a prior normal search would turn up nothing. But I wouldn't want this to become the default behaviour.
--Matthiaspaul (talk) 23:31, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think what we need is a language-specific set of which characters should show up for which typed characters or sequennces of characters; and for each wiki to provide a default settting in the preferences, which any individual user may change for him/herself. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@NH:The same situation is for czech language, e.g- R and Ř (and slovak Ŕ) are different letters too; E, É and Ě or u/ú/ů have each its own key on keyboard. But now we have three or four different possibilities in search preferences and no one of them is able to find these almost similar strings. If I want to reach swedish word åra on wiktionary, I have no key with å on my keyboard, but i have á and I am able to write ä.
. This search should be as new possibility and not set as default. Now there are:
Completion suggester
  • Default (recommended)
  • Strict mode (advanced)
  • Redirect mode (advanced)
Prefix search
  • Classic prefix search
one more options should be
  • Normalized search (converts letters to their base variant)
JAn Dudík (talk) 10:35, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This proposal is of great interest for French Wiktionarians too. We had a meeting (with a cake) yesterday and we discuss this issue. Actually, we went to a slightly different conclusion. The search engine do not support UNICODE now and do not allow to target one specific language during the search process. So, typing some exotic diacritics with a non-latin script may provide zero suggestion despite the existence of the specific page. So, it can be great to allow user to select a language for search and to have a sample of letter next to the search field. But to be very efficient, it as to be UNICODE compatible as well. Noé (talk) 12:45, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see one problem here: Search field usually redirects to some article with almost similar name instead of search results. If I want search result, I cannont simply press enter, but I must click to small "containing FOO" on the bottom of search field. This usually happens when searched article does not exist, but exist other with almost similar name phab:T138294. JAn Dudík (talk) 06:37, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi JAn Dudík - just a heads-up, I've moved your proposal to this Wiktionary page. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 01:59, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  1.   Support--Wesalius (talk) 08:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2.   Support Noé (talk) 15:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3.   Support JAn Dudík (talk) 22:25, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  4.   Support --Matthiaspaul (talk) 03:26, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  5.   Support Pamputt (talk) 07:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6.   Support Lenka64 (talk) 17:49, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  7.   Support Strong support --Kusurija (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  8.   Oppose --JB82 (talk) 01:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  9.   Support -- CFynn (talk) 05:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  10.   Support --Barbaking (talk) 09:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  11.   Support --Cobblet (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  12.   Support Risker (talk) 03:05, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  13.   Support Od Mishehu's proposal. --NaBUru38 (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  14.   Support --Lyokoï (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  15.   Support יונתנוס (talk) 18:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  16.   Support — NickK (talk) 23:33, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  17.   Support SamanthaNguyen (talk) 00:00, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Custom list for language learner

  • Problem: A student may want to create word lists to memorize a new language and then organize the list by themes (animals, plants), functional categories (emotional verbs, action verbs, nouns) or else. Wiktionaries have the content for language learners but do not provide any adapted tool to pick the words and easily organize the collected list so student can not use Wiktionary for this purpose.
  • Who would benefit: Students in a foreign language using Wiktionary mainly, but contributors may also use it to build a to-do list or a list of fancy words they like.
  • Proposed solution: Creating a Javascript or a core feature in MediaWiki to record a page into a personal space with an option for subcategorisation that include the link directly under a subsection (i.e. pick a word and add it to verb, colors, animals, new category section in the Custom list page). If the reader want to create a new subsection, we may include a dozen of basic terms to drive on the potentialities and uses of this page.

Then, we can imagine options for editing easily the Custom List such as:

  • a field to add directly in this page a word
  • an option to delete a word without editing the whole page
  • a rapid way to reorder sections

A link to this Custom list page may appear instead of Sandbox (useful for Wikipedia, not in use on Wiktionary).

  • Tricky part: Adding definition to the words is an improvement, but it may be hard to deal when there is more than one definition. Then, user may be allowed to edit his/her own personal definition for the words he/she picked.
  • More than Wiktionary: It may be possible to develop this tool to more than Wiktionary, to help people to make a reader list on Wikipedia or Wikisource for instance.
  • More comments: Initially proposed by Victor Porée in French Wiktionary. This is quite preliminary so you are very welcome to ask for details or to give ideas on how to create this tool.
  • Phabricator tickets: not yet

Community discussion

I think the purpose is very different.

@DannyH (WMF): Can you move this one too, please. Noé (talk) 07:34, 23 November 2016 (UTC) -- @Noé: - done, thanks. :) -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Voting – Custom list for language learner

  1.   Support--Wesalius (talk) 08:21, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2.   Support Noé (talk) 15:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3.   Support Pamputt (talk) 07:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  4.   Support Jberkel (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  5.   Support --JB82 (talk) 01:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6.   Support Serpicozaure (talk) 13:24, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  7.   Support This is a user support function which would put Wiktionary into every foreign language classroom, especially for underserved languages. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:38, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  8.   Support -- Svenji (talk) 22:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  9.   Support --Lyokoï (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  10.   Support - DPdH (talk) 12:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  11.   Support יונתנוס (talk) 18:23, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  12.   Support, I was also thinking of something similar for language learners — NickK (talk) 23:33, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  13.   Support SamanthaNguyen (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Add "Insert Citation" to VisualEditor

  • Problem: Adding citation to the definitions in Wiktionaries is handled by hand. There is no way of importing citations directly from Wikisource or Wikiquote.
  • Who would benefit: Wiktionaries by an enhancement with well-quoted citations and Wikisource visibility in another project (connectivity). Other projects may also want to insert quote, like Wikipedia (in authors pages) or Wikivoyage (about a place)
  • Proposed solution: A button in VisualEditor Insert Citation that explore Wikiquote and Wikisource similarly as Insert Media explore Commons. Or an development of Citoid.
  • More comments: This idea emerge during a Wiktionary meeting at Wikimania 2016 and was wrote in the Talk:VisualEditor page. It may be necessary to insert option to pick languages and projects in the scope of this tool. This idea was also summarize in French.
  • Phabricator tickets: phab:T139152
  • Proposer: Noé (talk) 09:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Translations: none yet

Community discussion

Maybe the proposal title should mention Wiktionary? Or would it be useful in other projects as well? – Jberkel (talk) 12:01, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jan! I am thinking from a Wiktionarian perspective, so I am convince it is useful for Wiktionary, but I don't know if other project can like it. Feel free to change the title of this proposition, and text too! Noé (talk) 13:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Jberkel: Actually, no. Most projects use citations, often as part of their references. Citations have a limited number of data elements, some of which are optional, but are common across many languages and projects. The most common elements are year of publication, author of work, title of work, publisher, page, and quoted text (wikitext.) On at least en.WT and fr.WT citations use a standard layout - but they are not the same layout (e.g. fr:bleu and en:blue.) I would expect each project/language would like to use their own citation template for the actual presentation, with perhaps a default template provided. (For en.WP, I would expect this would be a great improvement in editing ref tags.) - Amgine/meta wikt wnews blog wmf-blog goog news 14:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wiktionary links would be great. I would like to be able to easily pipe to wiktionary, as occasionally I would rather link to the definition rather than the encyclopedic entry. --LT910001 (talk) 07:36, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not sure you have the same idea as the one presented here. Or maybe you just want to expand it. Right, it could be very nice to have a way to know on Wikisource that some quote are used on entries in Wiktionary, with a template or something pointing to the entries. Main idea here was to have link to Wikisource in Wiktionary but both connections are good! Noé (talk) 09:22, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the problem here then just that the wiki in question has not followed the directions on mw:Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki or is Citoid insufficent in any way?--Snaevar (talk) 23:42, 12 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Citoid is not installed in Wiktionary wikis, and I am not sure it can be use for the purpose mention here. The purpose here is to have a sample of Wikisource directly in VisualEditor, focus on the targeted word, showing only sentences with highlight, not the whole text. Then, picking one sentence will add this sentence and the correct reference, from Wikisource, because we want the precise page from the source, when possible. I hope that clarify this proposal. Noé (talk) 15:25, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I tried Citoid and it is very interesting, I think we may ask to have it for fr.wikt but it is different in three aspects:

  • Citoid is for footnotes and Wiktionaries use references with source templates, at the end of illustrative quotations, next to definitions.
  • Citoid do not link properly Wikisource.
  • Citoid do not provide a sample of Wikisource in which it is possible to pick directly a sentence to include (and that would be a killer-extension!).

So, I maintain this proposal, and maybe this one should be include in Citoid development plan in the near future :) Noé (talk) 09:48, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just to make sure everyone understands this request: On Wiktionary, a "citation" is a quotation that shows how a word is used, e.g., in a famous poem. The request is to make it easy to grab the quotation (e.g., "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference"), not just a bibliographic reference (e.g., "Frost, Robert. (1920) "The Road Not Taken" in Mountain Interval. New York: Henry Holt and Company.")
Noé, is that a fair description? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Similarly as Insert media, if one is editing difference and click on Insert media there is suggestions from Wikimedia Commons. I suggest to add Insert media that print excerpt from Wikisource and add automatically the bibliographic reference when one pick the one she want. Is it clearer now? Noé (talk) 12:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Voting – Add "Insert Citation" to VisualEditor

  1.   Support Sadads (talk) 15:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2.   Support Noé (talk) 15:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3.   Support Pamputt (talk) 07:36, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  4.   Support Jberkel (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  5.   Support though I don't use it on Wiktionary JB82 (talk) 01:16, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  6.   Support Libcub (talk) 03:51, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  7.   Support as this will give more reliability to Wiktionary Csisc (talk) 10:54, 2 December 2016 (UTC).[reply]
  8.   Support --Framawiki (talk) 20:55, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  9.   Support Sesamehoneytart 04:01, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
  10.   Support we have workarounds for it through gadgets, but I think it is such a highly needed tool that (now that Cite is part of core) it should be added to VisualEditor Huji (talk) 19:42, 5 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  11.   Support Icebob99 (talk) 18:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  12.   Support --MarcoSwart (talk) 06:22, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  13.   Support --Edhral 07:08, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  14.   Support Risker (talk) 03:05, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  15.   Support --10:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
  16.   Support --Lyokoï (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  17.   Support - DPdH (talk) 12:25, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  18.   Support יונתנוס (talk) 18:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  19.   Support SamanthaNguyen (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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