Requests for comment/Sysop (Hercule&Stevenliuyi) malicious action to the wuu wikipedia

The following request for comments is closed. The request was eventually archived as inactive.

I wanna to say some trust about wuuwiki

My English is pretty basic, please don't mind.

Today, I want to say something, about wuuwiki. It's shameful page of wikipedia.

5 years, two destroyer...as sysop...manage wuuwiki, still now.

Though it's fact that wuuwiki hasn't got enough editor or visitor, I think it need be respected too.

But, everything they did makes us feel shame.

A french who don't use wuu and have no knowledge about wuu holds a post sysop in wuuwiki 5 years. He let everyone use english in wuuwiki, and he use French to contact stranger in it. What ironic thing it is!Some wuu dialect forbid being use in wuuwiki, and most of them is legalized as Intangible Cultural Heritage by UNESCO!The french name 'Hercule'. A blot, in wikipedia.

A Chinese having no knowledge about wuu holds a post sysop, too. His name is 'Stevenliuyi', an editor having 100+ edits only.

One of them units another one...to destroy wuuwiki, again and again.

In wuuwiki, it has 3 editors editing usually only. And it has 2 destroyers unexpectedly, too!

They are dictator. They formulate 'consensus' in own mind, and the 'consensus' can't be found in public.

I'm wuu linguist, one of the top in the world. Before I have been there, I learned skill about 'how to edit wiki' in Shanghai wiki group.

I wanna to let wuuwiki to be easier to use. So, I create many templates, and all of them is basic and useful.

Before Hercule deleted them, It seems very fantasy, likes train drive along the correct orbit.

Everything to me became, after I find it is terrible fact that he is destroying wuuwiki!

It occur to me that I must fire him!I started local discussion about recalling him at that time. But he 'protected' the page and deleted the calling modules. He said he can't understand wuu, but I think it is untruth. He always delete every page against him timely.

I tried to contact him in his User_talk.->Click to here

ya..U can see the talk at #14 & #15. In the end, he had banned me cheekily, using his competence. you will find it has another editor being mentioned in this talk, named 'Jose77'. He is an innocent victim, too. By reading some templates' edit history, you will find much editors leave wuuwiki during these years. Because of the outrage Hercule and Stevenliuyi did!

During the period of negotiations he and I, Stevenliuyi got involved.

He used his own 'consensus' to threat me in my user_talk. He is admin, but i'm user...only user.So, I had started local discussion about recalling him at that time, too. Unfortunately, this page was 'protected', again.

（保护日志）; 10:46 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）已保护“Wikipedia:權限存廢討論/Stevenliuyi”‎ ‎[edit=sysop] (无限期) [move=sysop] (无限期)

（保护日志）; 10:46 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）已保护“Wikipedia:權限存廢討論/Hercule”‎ ‎[edit=sysop] (无限期) [move=sysop] (无限期)

（两样 | 历史） . . 小 Wikipedia:權限存廢討論/Stevenliuyi; 10:46 . . （+323）‎ . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）‎

（两样 | 历史） . . 小 Wikipedia:權限存廢討論/Hercule; 10:45 . . （+416）‎ . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）‎

（两样 | 历史） . . 小 Wikipedia:管理员‎; 10:40 . . （-224）‎ . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）‎ （elections closed. There is no revocation procedure based on a vote here. Furthermore with non local users）

（删除记录）; 10:39 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面Wikipedia:管理员/權限存廢指令 ‎（no procedure like this here....）

As you can see, his action is cheeky!quote:'There is no revocation procedure'...Stewards tell me:You should start a local discussion. Dear reader, when you read here, can you tell me, what can i do?

ya..If you can't find out what the page or template do, you should start discussion to hear some opinion else.<-It is taken for granted.

In the period of negotiations he and I, he emphasize his 'experience', again and again. But I think business is business. His 'experience' can't solving any problem.

I'm saying the situation about wuuwiki, because I want to see justice.

I have decided that I'll leave wuuwiki after this case finish, If Hercule and Stevenliuyi haven't step down.

Before my leaving, I'll fallback the edit I did and clear the page&template I created, because all of them doesn't meet the dictators' 'consensus'.

The irony is that I had applied for the sysop of wuuwiki before this happened.

Three weeks, I have edited wuuwiki 180+ of times.

Three years, Stevenliuyi have edited wuuwiki 119 of times.

And, he told me...'Your editing news is too little. So, you can't be a sysop'...

I'm being banned in wuuwiki now.

I write this here...to tell you these...to my own conscience....

Every word is authentic, I promise.

--Irc782 (talk) 07:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I don't know, but Hercule's "holier than thou" attitude really rubs me the wrong way, not to mention the way he implements rules on his own without even speaking the language of the project.
And how did he become sysop, anyway? His candidature at wuu:Wikipedia:管理员/Hercule ended with two oppose votes. My thinking is, he should have never been granted the sysop rights in the first place. -- Liliana • 01:46, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The rights were given to him by wuu:User:Wtzdj (log). --MF-W 02:14, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Intriguing - he created a nomination page, and less than one hour later Wtzdj just comes and gives him sysop rights to "help with everyday maintenance". I don't know, but what he is doing right now is certainly not everyday maintenance. Not to mention that he shouldn't have retained sysop rights after the vote failed. -- Liliana • 09:15, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a sysop myself on two wikis whose language I do not speak I would like to say that in such a case one should always be extremely careful in reprimanding speakers of the language for their actions. One should only understand one's role like global sysops do ("for the purposes of antivandalism and routine maintenance [...] no extra editorial control over content or the local community"). Additionally, it is not acceptable to protect a page where someone starts a request for deadminship, with the reason "There is no revocation procedure based on a vote here". Most wikis do not have detailed policies neither on getting nor on losing adminship, so if the community unites to request that a user loses his sysop access, that should be done and not shut down with the comment "we have no such process". --MF-W 02:14, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sysop at wuu.wiki since 5 years, with constant activity. Even if I don't speak wu I know this Wikipédia, its history, its rules and the consensus that established the edition rules. To just look at a log comment is a mistake. I'm 100% sysop there. And also bureaucrat.

I take care with reprimands. But when a user recently registered is requesting for desysop of every sysops, and requests bureaucrat rights after less than two weeks I think there is a problem. Much more when he just make the procedure in wuu while he knows I can't read it (my babelbox tells it, that's why I answered his message in wu in french).

I talked with the other sysop, that is a wu speaker. And we decided together that we had to stop the disruption (I don't want to decide this block alone, because it´s about a wu editor. For now Irc782 has only been blocked for 3 days because of his insults. If he stops his disruption hé won't be ban.

There is no formal procedure to revoke a wuu.wiki sysop. This revocation must be based on a local consensus, after a local discussion. Not after a vote not proceeded with discussions about the issue and how to solve it, and involving non wuu.wiki editors.

I tried to explain this to Irc782, but his goal is not to join a the wu Wikipédia, but to make it his own Wikipedia, where everybody have to approve his opinion and the rules he invents.

--Hercule (talk) 12:45, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are the illegal sysop for 5 years, you've got 3 oppose votes in your request - 2 from Wuu-users and 1 - from French-user. There is generally nothing to discuss. I agree with Liliana. Sysop permissions must be removed immediately from user Hercule, Irc782's blocking also must be removed. About Stevenliuyi - I dont't think that user with 118 edits can be Sysop even in Small Wikipedia section (I don't write "small language", 'cause it's wrong). By the way, if you can't learn language for 5 years, there are doubts about your good intentions. Everyone can learn the most difficult languages at least a minimum level for 5 years.--Soul Train (talk) 16:53, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have lost the long answer I written on my iPhone. I as it was too long and fastidious I'll make it short :

You absolutly don't know anything about me, wuu.wikipedia (in 2008 or know). When I see you ask for the removal of a 3 days block for insult (block that ends before your message) I'm sure that you speak about something you don't know.

My sysop flag is perfectly legitime and you don't have to make such accusation about me.

--Hercule (talk) 18:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm can see request for adminship, you got 3 votes against. May be one from that man who gave you the permissions (he didn't vote in request page). So you are simply liar.--Soul Train (talk) 07:49, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You absolutly don't know anything of what happened on wuu.wiki 5 years ago and the years after. Your suspicion and accusation is simply ridiculous and don't need any reply...

I don't need replies from dictators, liars and mystificators.--Soul Train (talk) 14:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sysop and crat at wuu.wiki, sysop in fr.wiki, global sysop and have a global bot since many years. I don't know you, but you have no legitimity to make such accusations about my probity.

--Hercule (talk) 08:34, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Without any comments on the specifics of matter, I would like to point out to Hercule that he is grossly mistaken in thinking that discussions cannot be held to remove a sysop without a policy detailing their work. That is not the case, and we have removed sysops based on votes on their wiki plenty of times, that is normal and routine. The community of a wiki is paramount and the source of authority. I have reverted Hercule's protection of his own desysop page as it is blatantly an involved use of administrative action against common sense and common decency. You cannot possibly be the judge at your own trial, and your attempt to do so is shameful in my eyes. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 21:25, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your understanding.And...You had reverted Hercule's protection of his own desysop page...It seems that you forget to revert Stevenliuyi's protection of his own desysop page...--782（Talk） 08:46, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Before Hercule blocked irc782, I warned irc782 about his disruptive actions, which include:

He didn't respect the consensus that wuuwiki uses Simplified Chinese instead of Traditional Chinese in the articles, and insisted on using Traditional Chinese (such as [1]) even after I informed him the rule. wuuwiki has been using Simplified Chinese since its beginning, because almost all wu speakers today live in Mainland China, which uses Simplified Chinese as the official character. I'm not saying that the rule cannot be changed, but such a major change to the wiki should be discussed first.
He also didn't respect that wuuwiki doesn't support different wu dialects, insisted on having subpages of articles that use Roman letters to transliterate different wu dialects. As above, I'm not opposing it, but there should be discussion first. I have repeatedly told him that he can start discussions about specific issues, but he didn't listen. He just simply accused the sysops.
It seems that he was inappropriately canvassing for the two desysop pages he created. All the support voters except him are not wuuwiki-editors, one of them even doesn't have one single edit on wuuwiki except the two support votes ([2]). Besides, it's also abnormal for a small wiki that all the support votes are voted within few hours after the pages are created respectively. So I think there was stealth canvassing.

Besides, I want to clarify that I never said that "Your editing news is too little.So,you can't be a sysop". What I said is that he doesn't have enough wiki experience. Actually for a small wiki like this, I don't think edit number is a problem for becoming a sysop. I myself supported an user who had very few edits but had great experience on Chinese Wikipedia to become a wuuwiki sysop. As for irc782, I believe that he doesn't have enough experience. Actually it seems that he doesn't even know the difference between bureaucrat and sysop. When he applied for bureaucrat on wuuwiki, I asked that what he plans to do with the bureaucrat rights and told him that these is a difference between bureaucrat and sysop. Based on his response, I'm sure that he doesn't understand the difference. Even in the above comments, he said that "I had applied for the sysop of wuuwiki". But it's not true, he actually applied for bureaucrat. That's why I oppose him to become a bureaucrat, or a sysop. Regards, --Stevenliuyi (talk) 22:59, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I want to ask you, is this true: We have discussed, me an Stevenliuyi, the sysop, and we both think that your attitude is disruptive.? If so, where was this discussed? Or did Hercule just make this up to have a stronger position against irc782? -- Liliana • 14:08, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hercule sent me an email to ask me my attitude before blocking irc782. I agreed with him that some of irc782's actions are disruptive (like I described above), and I suggested to give him one last chance before blocking him. Hercule said he agreed with me, so I warned irc782 on his talk page (the warning message is similar as some of my above comments), and tell him that he should stop these disruptive actions.--Stevenliuyi (talk) 14:41, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"I don't think edit number is a problem for becoming a sysop" What are you talking about? There's allways existing things to do in the Project, I have ~1300 edits in the bxr.wikipedia, for example, but I know just a few phrases in Buryat language. Categorization, updating of the data, edits in templates, gadgets and so on - there's allways things to do. But you do nothing.--Soul Train (talk) 14:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I am wondering about wuu:User talk:Hercule#Questions_regarding_deletions as well. Hercule deleted wuu:张靓颖 as "wrong language or automatic translation". How can he judge this if he doesn't speak the language? There were no deletion tags present, I checked. Hercule just said "I'm sysop here for many years and know how to manage deletion.", so he doesn't even try to justify his deletions, he just says "it's me and I am always right". Is that good behavior of a sysop who is only supposed to do "everyday maintenance"? I don't think so. -- Liliana • 17:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that your opinion is not revelant because you don't know our Wikipedia and its history...

I was flaged sysop for everyday maintenance with another user because there was a large copyvio issue there. But after that the other user has left the project, and I was much more involved. I gave assistance to remove many editing templates, and to apply the community decision about simplified characters. I became a normal sysop, and also became bureaucrat.

Then the others sysops and crat left the project. Some new users arrived, and sometime they flagged articles for speedy deletion, sometime they tell me what article is in wrong language. For the article you point out I was told that all the creations of 要穿棉毛裤 where automatic translations or not translated at all. So I deleted it. But I don't understand why I need to explain to you, who have nothing to do with wuu.wiki.

For the deletion comments, I try to give it but sometimes I forget. And we have no rule that makes it mandatory. When I forget a comment and I'm correctly asked for explainations I give it...

Also, when a trusted user ask for sysop flag I give him. And discuss with him. But when someone unknown request the revocation of all sysops all want the bureaucrat flag I'm suspicious. And when only foreign users vote for his proposition I say he must stop or be banned.

I'm able to agree that a steward remove my protection because he thinks I should not protect a page about a procedure against me (even if I think the page is illegitime). But I don't accept to be told "illegal sysop" or suspected to make illegitime actions from users of Meta that don't know me or wuu.wiki at all. This page is not a trial and you're not a policeman !

--Hercule (talk) 10:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're certainly not in a position to tell me "your opinion is not revelant". This kind of behavior reflects very poorly on you and the stewards who close this RFC sometime later will surely be able to form their own opinion from what you are saying here. All I can say is: no sysop on any WMF wiki should behave like this. -- Liliana • 13:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"you don't know our Wikipedia and its history" is not a legit excuse. I appreciate what you have contributed to wuu, especially given that you are not a wuu speaker, but it can never justify what you have done. Lots of wuu speakers are complaining to zh admins both online and offline, yet you are still too arrogant to admit abusing admin tools. Besides, Wtzdj did give you admin rights, but why was he/she allowed to do so without any successful RFA?--Jsjsjs1111 (talk) 12:00, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"it can never justify what you have done." Can you be more explicit about this accusation ?

You talk about "many complaints" but no zh.wiki came to report it to me. It there was a real problem with my administration of this Wikipedia I think at least one would have come to report it, and maybe give me suggestion to correct it...

"Besides, Wtzdj did give you admin rights, but why was he/she allowed to do so without any successful RFA?". That's how this Wikipédia worked 5 years ago... "you don't know our Wikipedia and its history". For the same reason you can't accuse me from "abusing admin tools" because you don't know what are our rules... that don't exist about sysop actions. We just work with consensus...

If Irc782 would not have attack me, making think to a steward that he can't speak english while he can, organising directly révocation/election votes before discussing and asking for non wuu.wiki users to vote there would have been no problem. I explained him my deletion, and could have search alternative to make what he wanted to do according to the wuu.wiki rules and usages.

I don't think I made any abuse in 5 years. I've done some mistakes, but always corrected it after I saw and understood it was a mistake. But for that an informal discussion is better that an RfC...

--Hercule (talk) 14:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First of all.Why a wuu admin do not know how to speak wuu and need someone to speak english?And why he do not know wuu but know that someone "attack" him.That is VERY ridiculous.--栗悟饭与龟派气功 (talk) 03:10, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Because the attacks are done in english...

--Hercule (talk) 07:50, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So,can you post that content that you think it is an attack?--栗悟饭与龟派气功 (talk) 09:59, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fisrt of all, the attacks are the actions I detail in my post. For quotables attacks there is for example : his first message in english on my talk page

--Hercule (talk) 08:34, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

i understand now why wikipedia-wuu is 'small wiki',because of you.It's so funny.Someone who doesn't use wuu manage wuu.wikipedia.org.

I think that is not an attack.How you can treat it as an attack?It any procedures in wuu that judge it be an attack?--栗悟饭与龟派气功 (talk) 00:49, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

before that i said,he said'wuuwiki is small wiki'.Is not I should identify it's insult in public?--Irc782 (talk) 02:48, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you quote this part of the diff, and not the attack ? "as a sysop,you had destroyed wuu.wikipedia.org,again and again" It's an attack. Here exists SWMT : the Small Wiki Monitoring Team. Considering that wuu.wikipedia.org is simply a fact... --46.218.195.138 13:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that people are looking at personalities rather than the issues. The status quo is that a particular script and dialect is used, it might be easy on wuu:wp to change that consensus, and if it is changed I'm sure the existing admins will be happy with it. As to the importation and translation of templates, that is in general a good idea, it cuts down on duplicate work and helps people who work across wikis. I see these disagreements as minor, and the only admin action I would challenge is protecting the "recall" page - even that can be excused, we do note expect admins to be perfect.

Conversely working on project in a language one does not understand is a big donation of time to that project - one does not even get to read the articles as payment. Certainly, though, if good Wuu speaking candidates arise it would help to have them.

I suggest that the substantive issues be referred back to the wuu:wp community for discussion and consensus forming.

Rich Farmbrough 21:59 9 August 2013 (GMT).

Local resolution is not possible because Hercule proclaims himself to be the next Kim Jong-Il and blocks anyone on the project who tries to do anything he doesn't like. For what it's worth, he even closed his own desysop procedure, a clear abuse of sysop privileges. -- Liliana • 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you quote the affirmation "Hercule proclaims himself to be the next Kim Jong-Il and blocks anyone on the project who tries to do anything he doesn't like" or is it just a personnal attack ? --Hercule (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is exactly what this very RFC is about! See above! -- Liliana • 16:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's false. That's not because someone opens an RfC against me that you can write "Hercule proclaims himself to be the next Kim Jong-Il and blocks anyone on the project who tries to do anything he doesn't like." : when you write it you insult me and you lie as I just blocked irc782 during 3 days for his insults, and never proclaims anything like that (or you should be able to quote it). Please read en:Wikipedia:Civility, and much more en:Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#What is considered to be a personal attack? : "Comparing editors to Nazis, dictators, or other infamous persons.". As a global sysop you should know this basic rule of Wikimedia projects...) --46.218.195.138 13:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

it may indeed be'in general a good idea',but it more well than nothing.--Irc782 (talk) 03:29, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that 'I'm sysop at wuu.wiki since 5 years'is Impunity Gold in some people's sight.--Irc782 (talk) 03:36, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a Wuu speaker, I respect what Hercule have done in the past few years. but this Wiki needs changes that are done by Wuu speakers, it is better to welcome native editors to make necessary changes, this is because native user can be more professional than anyone else. Hercule needs to trust. from where I stand, Stevenliuyi has long ignored the duty of clean up those articles that are not qualified. ----Benjamin Jiperus (talk) 10:39, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any one of the Chinese GOV in history never define which word wuu use,including CCP GOV,ROC National GOV,Northern GOV,Qing...Someone had showed his ignorance,again.And it show it's trust that Wuuwiki run in someone's personal mind...contrary to consensus in society.In history,every illustrious works about wuu use cht.It's so clear that someone kidnap wuuwiki,and manage it in his own mind.This page is discussing whether we should recall 'Hercule'&'Stevenliuyi',but someone discuss 'irc782's ability on wiki' unexpectedly.I can't understand why he can manage wiki in condition ability about understanding being so low.

Someone censure me, and they think I damage wuuwiki.So,prove it,pls.Only I disagree someone?Quarrelling with bureaucracy in his user_talk?You can check every operation I did,and u will find all of accusations about me is defamation.

And...Hercule likes saying 'I'm sysop at wuu.wiki since 5 years'.I had told him 'Business is business' in his user_talk twice.But it seems to be right that he can't understand what it is.After he block me,I think the channel for direct dialogue between he and I is dead.He convey a clear message to me:I'm boss here.Don't challenge me.

If you wanna to be a manage in wuuwiki,it's not necessary that you must have enough edits before your application.So,I apply for bureaucracy when I find wuuwiki not commensurate with wuu actual status.Simultaneously,I was editing on wuuwiki.Until I find Hercule damage it,I stop my edit operation.After read some edit history about hercule,i decided to recall him.Stevenliuyi join the involved in this dispute,and impose his own mind to me before I start local discussion about recalling him.

Jurisdiction on wiki is not bullying or dignity,but homage、equality、cooperation...

--Irc782 (talk) 03:06, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't decided the way Wu have to be written on wuu.wikipedia.org. That was decided by the wu writers before I came. As I helped them to clean the articles, even by writting some code for my bot to make automatic maintenance, I know the writting rule, and I know how hard is it to make clean-up if you leave too much articles with the wrong characters.

I never said you damage wuu.wikipedia.org. I have seen a creation of complex templates that I know is a bad idea because nobody will have the hability to maintain it, and just delete them. That's you that accused me for damaging wuu.wikipedia.org !

I also never said that nothing can change. I just ask you to discuss before changing the rules and consensus. Your candidature for bureaucratship and request for revocation of the 2 local sysop is a perfect illustration of your attitude since the beginning : you prefer destroying what exists just to be able to make wuu.wiki as you think it should be than discussing of the problems you find and trying to find consensual solutions.

On you local "procedure" (there is no desysop procedure on wuu.wiki) there are only non wuu.wikipedia.org users that vote... I you had opened a simple discussion I don't think they would have came just to vote...

--46.218.195.138 13:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The channel for direct dialogue between you and I is dead since you block me.-- 782（Talk） 16:32, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK.Guys,as you can see.'That was decided by the wu writers before I came.'ya...I had already told every reader:I can't find the 'consensus' in public.Maybe somebody use wuuwiki in another dimension.'I never said you damage wuu.wikipedia.org.'...When I said you say it?Manufacturing topics to shift the focus of the topic.'you prefer destroying what exists just to be able to make wuu.wiki as you think it should be than discussing of the problems you find and trying to find consensual solutions.'oh~oh~oh~I can't believe the words from the one being not speek wuu.Neither Stevenliuyi&Hercule can speek wuu,and they judge the policy about 'what is wu?'&'Is it wuu?'.
Yes.An outsider managing wiki being strange to him is allowed,but it should be temporary.5 years,it's long time.Everyone can see the status about wuuwiki.Wuuwiki need innovation.
By checking Stevenliuyi's contribution record,you will find he is a inaction sysop.When it happens that someone do anything threatening him sysop position,he will busy protecting his right.Without these,he did nothing.
A bureaucracy 'protected' the page about recalling him and his ally,and he said 'I you had opened a simple discussion I don't think they would have came just to vote...'.Answers you must understand what he afraid,I think.
Because wuuwiki's flow and the 'protected' hercule involved did,the local discussion may not success as zhwiki or enwiki,but you can see what everyone hope online and offline.Please respect what public opinion, Sir.
And.Although the channel for direct dialogue between Hercule and I is dead since he block me,I wanna to tell him:If you resign the opition on wuuwiki,it will be the best contribution you did to wuuwiki.Everyone on wuuwiki will thank you.
The same to Stevenliuyi.
Regards
---- and...
If Hercule&Stevenliuyi was recalled successfully,wuuwiki will enter the status nobody managing.To avoid the status,I think we can persuade 行走京沪线 serving bureaucracy and persuading Benjamin Jiperus serving sysop.行走京沪线 has enough exp on editing wiki,and he can help us to repair the wuuwiki.Benjamin Jiperus is Kiangnanese,and he can speek wu very well.Before the entire event happening,I had applied for bureaucracy.Thinking the current status,I should avoid arousing suspicion.
Maybe it is not meeting the wiki requirements indeed.But considering the urgency and specificity about this incident,it's very important to wuuwiki. -- 782（Talk） 17:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Were do you read in your quote "you damage wu wiki" ? I don't see it. --Hercule (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

wow……maybe we should read these:

2013年8月20日 (礼拜两)
（两样 | 历史） . . Wikipedia:红茶坊‎; 19:51 . . （+850）‎ . . EdwardsBot（讨论 | 贡献）‎ （→HTTPS for users with an account：新段落）</nowiki>
（删除记录）; 14:58 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面镜头 ‎（内容：“{{d|Nonsense in Mandarin}} 床上戲就是对镜头打真軍，得艾滋病个風險大。”）
（删除记录）; 14:57 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面迈克尔道克里 ‎（内容：“{{d|Mandarin}} '''迈克尔道克里'''——是澳大利亚珀斯科廷科技大学（''Curtin University of Technology''）个经济金融学院副教授。 ===重要研究发现 === 在养育子女...”）
（删除记录）; 14:57 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面谢国民 ‎（内容：“{{d|無法翻譯}} 伊是乃歇泰国个第大三富豪。职务：正大集团董事长 {{trs}} '''ธ...”）
（删除记录）; 14:56 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面维基百科不是 ‎（内容：“{{d|Mandarin}} == '''维基百科不是……''' == === 维基百科不是印刷品 === 维基百科不是印刷品。维基百科没有条目数量限制，只要题目能获得查证并符合以下条件，即可写成维基百科...”）
（删除记录）; 14:56 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面Dunkerque ‎（内容：“#REDIRECT 敦刻尔克”（唯一贡献者为“梦工厂”））
（删除记录）; 14:55 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面敦刻尔克 ‎（内容：“{{d|it describes a personal affair of the editor,Nonsense}} 118px '''Dunkerque'''—— 个只法国小城市。乃歇人口：'''7'''万人；吾有个同班同学王登...”）
（删除记录）; 14:55 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面啥照片？（内容：“{{d|Nonsense}} ==該是教育用个相片== 本頁面可能引起觀者浮想聯翩，千萬弗要勒非家人个異性面前展示，未成年者勿要看。儂要是勒工作場化千万也弗要看阿。 <gallery> Image:Vulva (brasi...”）
（删除记录）; 14:55 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面弗晓得（内容：“{{d}} i don't know”）
（删除记录）; 14:54 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面少女怀孕（内容：“{{d|personal opinion in Mandarin, Nonsense}} '''少女怀孕'''是交关弗好个事体。 千万弗要勒来拉尝试阿。 == 日本电视剧== * 14岁个妈妈 == 啥链进来（外文）== * [http...”）
（删除记录）; 14:54 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面先知 (电影) ‎（内容：“ {{d|Mandarin}} '''先知'''（''Knowing''）是一只2009年出个科幻电影。导演是亚历克斯普罗亚斯和主演尼古拉斯凯奇。该项目最初是重视一些董事根据哥伦比亚电影公司，但它被安...”）
（删除记录）; 14:53 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面Web 2.0 （内容：“{{d|Mandarin}} 2005年12月30号, [[Tim O'Reilly 发表有关Web 2.0观点：[http://www.oreillynet.com/lpt/a/6228 piece]个辰光，展示出该只概念图<ref>[http://kosmar.de/archives/2005/...”）
（删除记录）; 14:53 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面Amphol Lampoon ‎（内容：“{{d|Mandarin mixed, Non-wuu title}} {{trs}} {{PAGENAME}}履行在2007年帕塔亚国际音乐节。 '''Amphol Lampoon'''是泰国职业歌手，演员。 1963年7月20号生勒勒（罗勇...”）
（删除记录）; 14:53 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面Google Chrome ‎（内容：“{{d|Mandarin}} '''谷歌铬美'''（''Google Chrome ''）是速度顶顶快个浏览器。 PC世界杂志进行了大量测试，找出铬美确实是...”）
（删除记录）; 14:52 . . Hercule（讨论 | 贡献）删除页面14岁个小妈妈（内容：“{{d|nonsense personal opinion in Wuu}} 啥毛病的 ? 21世纪勒日本还有人家'''14'''岁就随便生出来个贝贝，弗大来三个。 警告：女主人未希个未来绝对畀毁坏脱。侬千万弗...”）

A lot of page in these is wuu!A crazy bureaucracy deleted it in the status he have no ability judge what wuu is!It's real destroy operation.-- 782（Talk） 04:29, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone abduct wuuwiki and setting wuuwiki along his own mind opposite Kiangnanere Consensus widely in reality.When he was debunked,he says:you prefer destroying what exists just to be able to make wuu.wiki as you think it should be than discussing of the problems you find and trying to find consensual solutions.<——I can't believe a man not understanding wuu tell others what wuu and what consensus at Kiangnan is.-- 782（Talk） 06:48, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You continue judging what you know nothing about...

All these pages I deleted where tagged for speedy deletion by Benjamin Jiperus, the guy you want to be the new sysop... It's him you now accuse of making a "real destroy operation" ! Is there any user that is not destroying wuu.wiki except you ?

For the consensus, I talking about the one at wuu.wikipedia.org, the website where I'm sysop since 5 years and where your first edit is one month old... Yes, I think I better know this Wikipedia than you do. And I think you should start by knowing it before wanting to change everything (that's what I mean with the sentence you quote, that is not an accusation of damaging wuu.wiki).

--Hercule (talk) 10:42, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Stewards:

Quote From here:

as you seem to be an editor since some times I would appreciate to know what was your former account.

--HerculeBot（讨论） 2013年7月27日 (礼拜六) 21:12 (UTC)
i’m very sorry about not replying your message in time but I was really busy these days. as you can see,i'm linguist about wuu.before i have been there,i learn skill about editing wiki in Shanghai wiki group. 柒捌貳782 is my former account.Because it's too difficult to find,i deactivated it. quote"In this Wikipedia the articles must be written in simplified characters, and not romanised.".

Quote From here:

You're registered since 2 weeks on Wikimedia projets, and made 56 edits here in one hour just before your vote. Have you ever been an editor here ?

It's very strange to see so many users having nothing to do with this Wikipedia voting here (on a procedure that have no legitimity at all) to eject an old-time sysop... --46.218.195.138 2013年8月20日 (礼拜两) 13:03 (UTC)

As you can see,he know how my exprience is.But he pretend he did't know before.Should we hand the competence to a cheater?

And...please check the contribution about Stevenliuyi on wuuwiki,too.You will find he hardly do anything without power struggle.Both of them working as manager is harmful to wuuwiki.

Since this month,I feel tired and helpless.This is my final answer on this page.If stewards can't give every wuu editor justice,hope and free air to breath,I think I should leave as former did.I had do anything I should do.I have a clear conscience for wuuwiki and wuu.

Please respect what public opinion, Sir.I'm waiting for a justice result,and every wuu editor is,too.

Regards

-- 782（Talk） 08:31, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One of the thing you should learn about Wikipedia is how to read a discussion. The comment you quote is about 栗悟饭与龟派气功, not you... --Hercule (talk) 10:07, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Inactive RfC

This page has been inactive for more than a month. From what I can gather, there are two parties here: User:Hercule and User:Stevenliuyi (Party 1) on one side, and User:Irc782 on the other (Party 2). Let me see if I get all the complaints noted: (NB: 'wuu' refers to w:Wu Chinese)

Excerpts

(short background): Irc782 created some templates, which was deleted by Hercule with no discussion, which prompted Irc782 to accuse Hercule of abusing admin tool and/or driving editors out of wuu.wp, and nominated Hercule to be de-sysopped.

Party 2's comments of Party 1:

Hercule "don't use wuu and have no knowledge about wuu" [Babelbox: fr-N, en-3, wuu-0] and Stevenliuyi "have no knowledge about wuu" [Babelbox: zh-N, wuu-N(?), en-3], yet able to become wuu.wp admins
- Neither Stevenliuyi & Hercule can speek wuu
They forbid using some wuu dialect, even though most of them are legalized as Intangible Cultural Heritage by UNESCO^{[citation needed]}
Stevenliuyi only have 119 edits in 3 years [yet became sysop for years].
They are dictator by making up their own 'consensus'. The 'consensus' isn't publicly available
Hercule [mass] deleted my "basic and useful templates"
- He should have started discussion to hear the opinion of the other users first [or the maker's opinion]
Hercule protected and deleted(link?) any page that tried to desysop him (and Stevenliuyi)
Hercule banned me
They made wuu editors leave the project
Stevenliuyi threatened(link?) me
Hercule always emphasizing on his 'experience' in every conversation

Party 2's comments about himself:

A wuu linguist, one of the top in the world.
Learned wiki skill in Shanghai wiki group.
Created many basic and useful templates.
Will leave wuuwiki if Party 1 haven't step down.
Applied for sysop in wuu.wp, had more edits than Stevenliuyi, but rejected because his number of edits is too few
Is currently banned in wuu.wp
- (blocked for 3 days by Hercule because of 'insults') log

Comments from readers about Hercule:

His candidature at wuu:Wikipedia:管理员/Hercule ended with two oppose votes [from wuu community and one oppose vote from French speaker, while no one voted for him].
- In fact the admin access was given 54 minutes after the page was created (14:05, 24 June 2008), before anyone could vote.
- In regards of his request for bureaucrat access three weeks later, another user commented "I don't know. Im not opposing but it seems the bureaucrat promoted you to sysop against consensus. If that is the case then bureaucrat rights should not be granted.", which was replied "... I don't think this is a good reason, considering the copyvio problems here :p."
- A section of the comments was deleted as "insult" [3]
The rights were given to him by wuu:User:Wtzdj (ex-bureaucrat) (log).
What he's doing right now is not what was granted to him ("[to] help with everyday maintenance")
He shouldn't be able to retain the right after 3 (out of 3) opposing votes
It is not acceptable to protect a page where someone starts a request for de-adminship, citing no de-sysop procedure exist in that project
Hercule deleted [pages] as "wrong language or automatic translation", even though he didn't know the language (wuu-0) and there were no deletion tags present
Lots of wuu speakers are complaining to zh admins both online and offline [about wuu.wp and/or admins]
it is better to welcome native editors to make necessary changes.

Comments from readers about Stevenliuyi:

Stevenliuyi has long ignored the duty of clean up those articles that are not qualified
- [Note: only about 84 actions performed so far. Last action in about 3 months]

Hercule's defense:

I'm sysop and crat at wuu.wiki since 5 years, with constant activity, sysop in fr.wiki, global sysop and have a global bot since many years.
I don't speak wuu
I know this Wikipédia, its history, its rules and the consensus that established the edition rules.
It's a mistake to just look at a log comment.
[Regarding his de-sysop page] When a user recently registered is requesting for desysop of every sysops, ... I think there is a problem.
- [Party 2] made the procedure in wuu [language] while he knows I can't read it, ... , that's why I answered in French.
- I talked with [Stevenliuyi] and we decided together that we had to stop the disruption
- There is no formal procedure to revoke a wuu.wiki sysop. It must be based on a local consensus, after a local discussion. Not after a vote not proceeded with discussions about the issue and how to solve it, and involving non wuu.wiki editors.
- When a trusted user ask for sysop flag I give him and discuss with him. But when someone unknown request the revocation of all sysops [and] want the bureaucrat flag I'm suspicious. And when only foreign users vote for his proposition I say he must stop or be banned. [See Steveliuyi's comment below]
- That's how this Wikipédia worked 5 years ago
Party 2's goal is to make it his own Wikipedia, where everybody have to approve his opinion and the rules he invents.
[About people who commented on the page] You are absolutely don't know anything about me, [and] wuu.wikipedia (in 2008 or now). You don't know anything of what happened on wuu.wiki 5 years ago and the years after. Your opinion is not relevant because you don't know "our Wikipedia" and its history...
My sysop flag is perfectly legitimate.
... there was a large copyvio issue there. But after that the other sysops and crat has left the project, and I was much more involved. I gave assistance to remove many editing templates, and to apply the community decision about simplified characters. I became a normal sysop, and also became bureaucrat.
[About deleting pages as "automatic translation"] I was told that all the creations [by a certain user] were automatic translations or not translated at all. So I deleted it.
[About reports from zh.wiki] no zh.wiki [users] came to report it to me. If there was a real problem with my administration of this Wikipedia I think at least one would have come to report it, and maybe give me suggestion to correct it...
- I don't think I made any abuse in 5 years. I've done some mistakes, but always corrected it after I saw and understood it was a mistake.
Irc782 [made stewards think] that he can't speak English while he can
[About script and language used in wuu.wiki] I didn't decided the way Wu have to be written on wuu.wikipedia.org. That was decided by the wu writers before I came. ... I know the writing rule, ...
[About deleting Irc782's templates] I have seen a creation of complex templates that I know is a bad idea because nobody will have the ability to maintain it, and [I] just delete them.

Steveliuyi's defense:

Party 1 didn't respect the consensus(link?) that wuuwiki uses Simplified Chinese instead of Traditional Chinese in the articles, and insisted on using Traditional Chinese even after I informed him the rule. wuuwiki has been using Simplified Chinese since its beginning, because almost all wu speakers today live in Mainland China, which uses Simplified Chinese as the official character. I'm not saying that the rule cannot be changed, but such a major change to the wiki should be discussed first.
- [Note: Simplified Chinese (han-s) is used in Mainland China and Singapore, among others. Traditional Chinese (han-t) is used in Taiwan and Hong Kong, among others]
He also didn't respect that wuuwiki doesn't support different wu dialects, insisted on having subpages of articles that use Roman letters to transliterate different wu dialects. As above, I'm not opposing it, but there should be discussion first. I have repeatedly told him that he can start discussions about specific issues, but he didn't listen. He just simply accused the sysops.
- [Note: unknown context, probably mixed up with Jose77's contributions]
It seems that he was inappropriately canvassing for the two desysop pages he created. All the support voters except him are not wuuwiki-editors, one of them even doesn't have one single edit on wuuwiki except the two support votes ([4]). Besides, it's also abnormal for a small wiki that all the support votes are voted within few hours after the pages are created respectively. So I think there was stealth canvassing.
[About opposing Party 2's candidacy] I never said that "Your editing news is too little. So,you can't be a sysop". What I said is that he doesn't have enough wiki experience. I believe that he doesn't have enough experience. ... it seems that he doesn't even know the difference between bureaucrat and sysop. ... he said that "I had applied for the sysop of wuuwiki". But it's not true, he actually applied for bureaucrat. That's why I oppose him to become a bureaucrat, or a sysop.
[About his own edit counts] For a small wiki like this, I don't think edit number is a problem for becoming a sysop.
Hercule sent me an email to ask me my attitude before blocking irc782. I agreed with him that some of irc782's actions are disruptive (like I described above), and I suggested to give him one last chance before blocking him. Hercule said he agreed with me, so I warned irc782 on his talk page (the warning message is similar as some of my above comments), and tell him that he should stop these disruptive actions.

Irc782's further comments:

[About script] In history, every illustrious works about wuu use Traditional Chinese. ... I can't find the 'consensus' [for writing in Simple Chinese] in public
By checking Stevenliuyi's contribution record, you will find he is an inactive sysop.

Action's taken so far:

Hercule's protection of his own desysop page has been reverted.
- Hercule accepts it
[Irc782 was only banned for 3 days, and can edit again since his ban expired]

Personal comments: What stands out is Hercule's comment about "you don't know our Wikipedia" attitude. Other than that I can see that there's a communication failure on wuu.wiki, where the sole active admin doesn't speak the language (it automatically impose that any wuu - or zh - speaker who wish to communicate with the admin should speak in French or English to him), but keep assuming that "experience" alone is enough in deciding administrative tasks.

I'll suggest that since Hercule didn't get his admin access the usual way, and it doesn't seem that any uninvolved party in wuu.wp supports him, (plus I saw there are some active editor in wuu.wp), another nomination process should take place. If you think you'll hold the support from 'your' community, then you have nothing to worry about. If you don't think so or you have doubts that 'your' community will support you, then the more reason one should be held :). If Hercule holds his position, he would have legitimacy on his action. Meanwhile, de-sysop for Steveliuyi was improper, but the page protection should be lifted, and all votes should be checked for sockpuppetry. Even though I'm intrigued as you put wuu-N in your babelbox, while Irc782 accused you of not being able to speak wuu at all...

About the content of wuu.wp, which script and dialect should be used, only the community can decide what should be in and what not. Discussion should take place there, not here. (And provide links about the so-called 'consensus')

PS: I was on IRC when I first noticed complain about wuu.wp. I think it propelled Bencmq to leave a comment on your talk page. Maybe other stewards have had similar experiences.

✒ Bennylin 15:36, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A reasonable proposal. I agree with it. --MF-W 10:07, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sensible proposal, I agree. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 17:11, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just for your information, I don't know why Irc782 accused me of not being able to speak wuu. I'm a native wuu speaker, I was born and have grown up in Shanghai, and I've been speaking wuu during my entire life. I guess that since Irc782 regards him as a top wuu-linguist, he thinks I don't have enough professional knowledge about wuu linguistics (though in the absence of any specific accusation). --Stevenliuyi (talk) 00:25, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I didn't accused him of using sockpuppets (actually I think he didn't), I was just saying he shouldn't ask non-wuuwiki editors (who never edited and know nothing about the wiki) to vote on wuuwiki. Regards, --Stevenliuyi (talk) 00:25, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think you perfectly resumed the situation.

I note that Irc782 is no more active on wuu.wiki or here since august. I understand that he don't want to find a solution, just to revoke existing sysops. The accusation that Stevenliuyi don't speak wu while it do is for me very revelant. For this reason I don't want to resign just because he ask it...

But I noted the complaints, and asked for Benjamin Jiperus his opinion about it. And for him I should resign. Even if I don't agree his analyse of the situation I agree his opinion, of course. So my intention is to organise soon a new admiship (and then bureaucratship) candidature. But before I want to finish the long time work I initiated about bot flag management. Anyway, as a global sysop I'll stay able to delete the pages flagged for speedy deletion.

About the wu script consensus, if Irc782 would not have agressed me I would have shown him where that was discussed (at least the requests for my bot to apply it). But he never asked such thing. And, of course, if there is a discussion to change the rules I won't do anything against it. But this should be discussed before, because there is a large turn-over on wuu.wiki editors.

For the non wuu.wiki voters, I d'on't think there is a problem of sockpuppetry. I just think that Irc782 asked to zh.wiki editors to vote on wuu.wiki. The problem is that they don't know the situation except from Irc782, and have no relation with wuu.wiki.

--Hercule (talk) 11:26, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aug 2016

@Hercule, Lt2818, and MarcoAurelio: So this RFC is already inactive for nearly 3 years, per our past consensus this should probably be closed as no consensus.

However, it looks like some consensuses were made locally to:

Not remove sysop and bureaucrat rights of Hercule, but
Remove Stevenliuyi's sysop right, and
Continue working on the Simplified-Traditional Chinese script converter for Wuu, and
(Have I missed some? Please point me as I want to fullfill the closure summaries.)...

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:41, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]