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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Galo

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submitted verification final decision

This proposal has been rejected.
This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page.

A committee member provided the following comment:

No ISO 639 code. If there is no valid ISO 639 code, you must try to obtain one.
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code  (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Gallo Language name in English
Language name galo Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q37300 - item has currently the following values: Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality LTR Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL .wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Europe/Paris "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

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Benéze de vous vair su le wikipedia en galo

La païje-la ét l'entama d'eune ouvraïje de souétier pour fere eune empllat en galo, le parlement de Haote-Bertègn

-- This unsigned message was sent by 78.113.166.123, 14:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly Oppose.
  • The [adl] code in ISO 639-3 (and BCP 47) is for Galo' (Q2857892), also known as Abor, Adi, Galo Adi, Adi-Gallong, Adi-Galo, Adi-galo, Gallong, Galong, a Sino-Tibetan language (in the Western Tani subgroup) spoken in Arunashal Pradesh (in Northeastern India, bordering the Chinese Tibet). See also Gallong language in English Wikipedia.
  • It is completely unrelated to Gallo (Q37300), the Oil language (sometimes described as a dialect of French even if it has very strong differences) spoken in Eastern Britanny (France) and recognized as a minority and cultural by the Regional Council of Bretagne, the Departmental Council of Ille-et-Vilaine (Haute-Bretagne, Haote-Bertègn), the intercommunal council of Rennes Métropole, and the municipality of Rennes (capital city of Bretagne). The Gallo language of France (also known as Galo in Gallo even if that language has no standard orthography, but always written gallo in French (or Continental Norman, or Italian), Gallo in English (or most European Germanic languages), gallaoueg in Breton, also known as Galloish in Manx, Gallowek in Cornish, Gallonica in Latin, Galo in Basque and Waloon, Galô in Francoprovençal, galó in Galician and Spanish, galò in Occitan, gal·ló in Catalan, gala in Piemontese) has NO ISO 639 code. It is only representable for now using a private use extension, such as [fr-x-gallo] or [fr-x-gal] (or [fr-gallo] if a non-private extension is registered in the IANA database for BCP47 as a variant of French). This language is actively supported by the region of Bretagne, including in public schools, and on street signs in Rennes (including directional indicators in the metro, and on plates marking names of some streets or plazzas in the pedestrian area of the city). See also Gallo language on English Wikipedia, or the quality article Gallo on French Wikipedia. It has a private community in Britanny, developping a Gallo (Galo) dictionnary (see academie-du-gallo.bzh) and trying to develop some standard (however it will not have official support by France and still does not benefit of the limtied recognition granted to the unrelated Breton language, which is Celtic with a medieval insular origin from England after the invasion of Saxons, and not Oïl/Romance/Italic like French descending from Latin mixed with Frankish and many other languages from different origins and almost none from Celtic, as the nearest ancestor was Gaulish before the Roman Empire expansion in Europe and there remained very few words of Gaulish in France or Italy; the contacts between Gaulish and Celtic people were extremely limited before the Saxon invasion of England, which occured after the division of the Western Roman Empire and its control by Frankish kings allied to Saxons; Celtic people from England fled to the North in Scotland, or in Southwest English and in Britanny, where Breton developped strongly over old Gaulish, and Breton which was spoken in a large area aroudn the Channel and North Sea, remains still partly intelligible with Cornish, thanks to fishers and navigators. This mutual understanding between Bretons and Cornish people was active up to the start of the 20th century; it did not occur at all with Gallo which remained separated from Breton, as the political situation of Britanny was fairly stable over many centuries before the union to the Kingdom of France and the very late introduction and assimilation to standard French in Britanny which became effective during WW1 to threaten the local status of Breton and more severely for Gallo).
  • This is the same problem for other Oil languages of France that form a continuum. Only a few are encoded in ISO 639 and usable in BCP47 on the web: Picard [pcd] and Walloon [wa], but others are also missing in this continuum, including Continental Norman even if, in Wikimedia, it is grouped with other Normand languages in [nrf] (normally assigned to Jersiais, but also used for Guernesiais and Sercquiais, and the Old Norman English spoken in the early kingdom of England and that remains today in "Law French" also known as "Norman French"). Gallo (of France) also forms a continuum with Continental Norman, Angevin and Maraîchin (in the Southern part of Loire-Atlantique, in Vendée and in North-western Poitou).
Sorry, but you did not check the references correctly before picking up such info in ISO 639-3. You've been confused! verdy_p (talk) 08:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Verdy p: Why don't you think that that IP user isn't requesting a language of India? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: This is extremely clear, the message was written explicitily about Gallo in Upper Britanny (Haote-Bertègn). It is also written in the Gallo language (of France), and definitely not in any Sino-Tibetan language ! The message means in (litteral) French (as you see it is very hard to read for French natives, this message just shows that Gallo is not a simple "dialect" or "variant" of standard French, it should be encoded separately in ISO 639: very different orthography, lot of lexical, grammatical differences, frequent omissions of implied words required in standard French; and very different phonology as well: even people speaking native French and living in Britanny that are not trained to it, notably those living in urban areas have difficulties to understand it).
[Je serais] heureux de vous voir sur la Wikipédia en gallo
La perspective du commencement d'une œuvre souhaitée pour faire une ressource en gallo, [avec] le parlement de Haute-Bretagne
And in English:
[I would be] pleased to see you on the Gallo Wikipedia
The perspective of a start of an expected work, in order to create a ressource in Gallo, [with] the Upper Britanny Parliament
Note that the user included the orthograph galo which is specific to that Breton Oil language, it is never written with a trailing apostrophe-like character (which is noting a shortened nasalized stop or glottal stop in the Sino-Tibetan language, and represented also by the -ng termination in English, or by an eng Latin letter that's why the Sino-Tibetan language is preferably named Gallong, not Gallo’ with the necessary apostrophe and not Gallo which is too defective... and confusive).
That IP also maps to an address in France , provided by SFR.fr (a wellknown major French ISP deployed nationally); note that all geolocations of this French ISP for home users point to the same rough point around PAris, because this is a dynamic IP within a large IPv4 block, 78.113.0.0/16 "0.0.113.78.rev.sfr.net" (formerly used for CEGETEL, the former name of SFR, then Neuf Cegetel after it merged, and later used also for LDCOM Networks also merged into SFR, or or Numericable also purchased by SFR, so SFR is now very large and owns and operates other many other /16 blocks for its millions customers). That IP block is then covering any place in France where SFR provides a service for home users: it may be a DSL acces or today an FTTH access, via the required home router by the ISP with the subscription, or even a mobile access over a 3G/4G network because SFR also operates its own mobile network, includng with "boxes" for home users that are still not eligible to a reliable DSL access or to newer fiber accesses). verdy_p (talk) 10:24, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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For the record/update: since August 2021, Gallo now has a BCP 47 code : fr-gallo but still not ISO 639 code. And I still don't see any test wiki. Cheers, VIGNERON * discut. 12:58, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As a Language committee member, I marked it as ineligible because that's the policy: no ISO 639 code, no eligibility. However, I'll add my personal impression (it does not represent the rest of the Language committee): if a group of serious linguists take it upon themselves, they can apply to ISO and ask to add a code and this may work. There is already a history of people who asked to add a code when at least one of their motivations was creating a Wikipedia: Western Armenian (hyw), Latgalian (ltg), Pannonian Rusyn (rsk), and more. It may work for Gallo, too. If it works, this request can be reconsidered. I have to clarify that this is not a commitment to approve the language; I'm only trying to say that I have no prejudice against reconsidering it if the conditions change. I would write a more direct message to the requesters, but they are anonymous. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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