Talk:Learning patterns

There is one pattern to consider: the lean startup business model as a pattern Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 18:47, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Not being updated?

Hi, I found that the Grants:Learning patterns page is not being updated with new learning patterns since January 2014. Let us fix this quickly!. --Netha Hussain (talk) 10:30, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Netha Hussain! This is my bad; I'll try to have this fixed by end of day Monday, PDT. Thanks for the nudge :) Cheers, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 20:41, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Cool! --Netha Hussain (talk) 16:39, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

GrantsBot

Jonathan: Might we consider stop having GrantsBot constantly reorder learning patterns at Grants:Learning patterns by last edit date? I watch the page as a way to be notified of new learning patterns. The constant reordering is rendering that rather useless. Personally, I would prefer that the patterns just stay alphabetized. What does ordering by last edit date get us? Thanks! Libcub (talk) 23:02, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lubcub. That's a fair suggestion. There are a couple reasons why I have set GrantsBot to update the ordering the way I have:

1. refreshing the list on a regular basis (every time a pattern is edited) assures that the profiles (the picture + summary) stay accurate. If someone changes the infobox summary of a pattern, or adds an image, that change will only be reflected in the list when the bot refreshes it. If we refresh the list less often (say, only when a new pattern is created), the content is less likely to be up to date.
2. ordering the list by edit date showcases the newest patterns (and/or those under active development). If I order them alphabetically, the same patterns will always appear at the top of the list, and newly-created ones will almost always appear below the fold, making them basically impossible to find without consulting the page history. I'd like to avoid that.

I would like to have a standard list of Learning Patterns available as well. Probably using DynamicPageList, like they do in the PEG request list page. BTW, you can also monitor edits to patterns, and the creation of new patterns, using Special:RecentChangesLinked. Have you tried that? I keep this link in my browser bookmarks. Cheers, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 23:20, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Recent Changes should work sufficiently well for what I want. Thanks. Libcub (talk) 02:13, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Translations?

Hi, where is the preferred location for translations of these patterns? Local wiki, subpage, some other title? Thanks.--Strainu (talk) 23:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Strainu. Are you familiar with how the translation extension works? That's the standard way of translating stuff on Meta. It's a somewhat convoluted process, but the documentation I linked to is pretty good. At least 1 pattern has been marked for translation this way (tho it doesn't look like it has actually been translated yet). You can look at it's markup to get an idea of what to do. Hope that helps, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 23:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Every learning-pattern title is displayed twice, one after the other

This is a design flaw. How do people want to fix it? Tony (talk) 07:00, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Learning patterns project page

Hi everyone, please go to Grants talk:Learning patterns/Project to discuss the learning patterns project in general. Thank you! --Bgibbs (WMF) (talk) 07:59, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Link to blog post in the intro

Hi! I've become a big fan of the learning pattern library. Now that I understand it, I am referencing it more in my work. I thought those new to the concept might appreciate the option of having further reading. And I knew that, a while back, Jonathan Morgan (WMF) wrote this post for the Wikimedia blog about learning patterns. Hope you don't mind that I added a link to it in the lead of the learning pattern library page. Feel free to revise as you see fit. Anna Koval (WMF) (talk) 01:35, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Anna, we're still working on that lead, but I think that looks fine for now. There may be some changes in the next few days or weeks. Thanks! --Bgibbs (WMF) (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Good, glad that's on the to-do list and glad that I could help. :) Looking forward to an even awesomer learning pattern library. :) Anna Koval (WMF) (talk) 20:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Redundancy in lists of patterns

There's search, list, browse, and then a complete list all on the same page. Could we maybe simplify how we're presenting the list of patterns to make it less confusing (subpage prefixes are ugly when displayed in a list)?

This page is also incredibly long. According to Chrome it's 1.7mb in size. Yeesh. Edit: Note, my wiki-fu is not strong enough to figure out what's going on with this particular page. I quickly got lost in the template soup. :( Ckoerner (talk) 16:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ckoerner. I agree that the subpage prefixes are ugly. Unfortunately I don't believe Dynamic Pagelist allows one to strip them. Else I would do so. Regarding redundancy: I don't have strong feelings about this, but I don't see how it hurts. "List patterns" shows them A-Z. "Browse patterns" shows them in reverse-chronological order by date of last update. "Search" is probably not necessary, but doesn't seem to detract from anything IMO. Given the number of patterns in the library, multiple wayfinding options are probably useful (tho these may not be the best options). Regarding the length of the page: I agree it's long (there are a lot more learning patterns now than when we started!) If you create a Phabricator task for "reduce the number of patterns visible on Grants:Learning_patterns to speed up load time" or something I will give it a priority and start to think up ways to address the issue. Thanks for the feedback, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 17:10, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Is there a way to request a learning pattern?

Is there a way to request a learning pattern? Specifically I'd like some sort of learning pattern around attractive templates to use in projects, possibly with a list of empty templates that could be used with instructions on how to customise them. WMF staff produce a lot of really nice looking templates but I can't work out how to change them into something I would like to use.

Thanks

Mrjohncummings (talk) 13:42, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Mrjohncummings, thanks for reaching out! We only have the Talk Page on the Learning Pattern landing page to request an LP. In toolkits, we use the template {{learning pattern needed}}. Pinging people who you think might be able to help create this Learning Pattern is a good idea when you post the message (either on a relevan toolkit, or on the talk page of LP Library). Hope this helps! María (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks María (WMF), if you are thinking of having a requests page let me know and I'd be happy to help out. Can you tell me who produces the nice templates for WMF so I can ask them? Mrjohncummings (talk) 10:28, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Certainly, Mrjohncummings, I will let you know, and it definetely sounds like a good idea. What templates for WMF are you referring to? That will help me find the right person (there might be several of us ). María (WMF) (talk) 16:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi María (WMF), so I would really love to know how to reuse the good looking templates on the evaluation portal and the PEG grants page (I know I've seen others but can't find them). What I think I would need is scooped out shells of the templates with clear instructions how to add text and images and change the colours and the position on the page to suit my needs. Thanks very much Mrjohncummings (talk) 15:42, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

I've worked on many of these kinds of templates, including some of the ones you've cited. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'll have much time in the short term to build a Learning Pattern. And the subject probably deserves multiple patterns, because the nice design of the pages you are referring to involves many different elements beyond the templates: there are wikitables with inline CSS, translation markup, and use of the <gallery> tags for special inline image formatting. On top of that, the templates on that page are built in two entirely different templating languages: 'wikicode' and Lua. For example, the Navbar is built in Lua and the other templates are built in wikicode. Besides Maria and me, others in whom the wikipage-web-design-fu is strong include Heather (WMF), Kaganer, Pcoombe (WMF), Jon Harald Søby, and Halfak (WMF). Cheers, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Jmorgan (WMF), well that all sounds very complicated and way beyond my level 1 magic skills, perhaps an answer is to make nice looking tables and templates easier to make through visual editor rather than spending a lot of time trying to explain to people with minimal technical knowledge how to make something. Does this sound plausible? John Cummings (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC) P.s I just changed my username

John Cummings, my point: Good looking design has never done with a visual editor. It's a dead-end idea :(

If needs "Learning patterns" for creating "Good looking design" for various issues and projects, it would be better to create a special sets of templates and skeletons of pages, for each topic / idea / project type.

--Kaganer (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Kaganer, do you know who could do this? Another option would be to have a piece of software that could import a template produced on easy to use tools outside Wikimedia, a similar idea to excel2wiki.net but for nice templates John Cummings (talk) 13:59, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Lots of edits to LP master page

I've cleaned up a lot. Please ensure that the bot doesn't mow it down. Grants:Learning_patterns/All

Thanks. Tony (talk) 08:58, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Tony1, it's literally impossible for me to prevent the bot from overwriting your changes, except by stopping the bot from running on that page completely (which would mean the page is no longer updated when new patterns are created. That's why I put the message at the top. I'm sorry for the wasted work, in future I would be happy to work with you to make the required fixes in a manner that persists. Find me on IRC or follow up on my talkpage if you would like to coordinate such work. Cheers, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 16:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I spent a LOOOOONG time doing that. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time and effort if your sign at the top hadn't been cast in vague terms that assume editors are tech-savvy. I suppose I've finally worked out now that the bot updates from the LPs themselves, including page names and the summary in the probox. I did that anyway, obviously, or it would have been a half-baked job with broken links from that page. So in the end the edits have survived. Please change the sign so that it explains rather than confuses. That's very annoying.

And no, I don't want to "coordinate" with you, I want to come along every so often and clean up the mess, as I've been doing for a while. Tony (talk) 11:30, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what to say to this (or this), other than that I'm grateful for the work you do, Tony1, I'm glad that your work was not wasted after all, and I regret that the sign on the page caused you confusion. Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your updates to the wording of the template, {{U|Tony1}. This is much more clear. I've updated the GrantsBot code so that this message will be displayed when the bot next updates the page. Cheers, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 17:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

About Intro

Dear EGalvez (WMF), please inform us, if Grants:Learning patterns/Intro is ready for starting translation markup. ;) --Kaganer (talk) 12:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

And about Template:Learning patterns/Button also. --Kaganer (talk) 12:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Anti-Patterns?

I'm finding these learning patterns to be of value as I think about how to engage with fellow community members.

Is there any interest to document anti-patterns? That is to say explicitly documenting things to avoid doing that new folks like myself might unknowingly fall into? Common tropes in technology would be things like bike shedding, Cookie Licking, etc?

If the goal is to remain positive in the description of a problem/solution, I understand. I'lll just have to think harder about how to approach the idea. 170.29.64.4 16:50, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome to add anti-patterns to the library. I think that many of the current patterns could be re-framed as anti-patterns, but in these cases (at least for the patterns I've written myself), I felt that presenting them with a positive slant was clearer and more productive. But publishing anti-pattern versions of some of these, and brand new anti-patterns, would likely be valuable. Or even re-writing some of our best essays as (anti-) patterns. Ultimately, from my perspective more is better, as long as the new content is integrated into the existing content. To me, the most important thing is that new patterns and anti-patterns are cross-linked to other relevant patterns already in the library, so that people can easily find relevant/related advice. Perhaps an new subcategory for anti-patterns would also be helpful, so that they can be easily found? Thanks for your input and interest in contributing! Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 00:46, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

A few people have now written anti-patterns, e.g. A short guide to bad projects, and A fine selection of mistakes for organizing an international conference (and how to make sure you commit them) --NF Ford (talk) 06:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Overlapping with Best Practices

I'm constantly confused by the fact that best practices pages are still there (and on multiple sites), and I don't know whether there's any attempt at merging them or what. Whoever knows about BP can ignore LP and viceversa, as the relationship between the two is unclear and there aren't even reciprocal pointers. I would have welcomed LP as a long-term attempt to rationalize and centralize resources in the long term, but so far it seems to me the project just "reinvented the wheel". --151.42.0.107 10:15, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Is LP must be connected to a grant?

I found many useful patterns in the Learning Patterns library. I too have many learning patterns to be created. I just have a doubt. Is it a must that every learning pattern be a sub-page of some Grants page? That is how it is created. Suppose I have an experience to put as a learning pattern, but that is not the outcome of any WMF Grant, then can it not be added as a learning pattern? I am a bit confused here.--Pavanaja (talk) 11:59, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree it shouldn't be; it should be "free standing". Shouldn't be too hard to create an infobox / category that marks a specific LP in cases where it was created as part of a grant, but that's not always the case. Best, Shani Evenstein 12:03, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Pavanaja there's certainly no reason the page needs to live in the Grants namespace. You're welcome to create a new pattern in findable as long as you use the category system. Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 16:56, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Where are learning pattern discussion archives?

This system has been around for about 4 years. Where are the discussion archives? Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Bluerasberry, the talk page somehow did not make it in the move. I have now fixed that. Harej (WMF) (talk) 23:05, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Move learning patterns from grant space to main space

Today FuzzyBot moved the learning patterns from the "grants" namespace to the meta mainspace. There has been an ongoing call to separate learning patterns from the grants space, so this seems to be a response to that. However, now that the patterns are not in the grants space, the current search tool is not working. Is the person who moved them also going to fix the search function?

@Jtmorgan:, you used to manage learning patterns. Who at the WMF is overseeing this collection these days?

Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello Bluerasberry, I have updated the search box to look for the learning patterns in their new home. In general, the learning patterns page is maintained by the Learning and Evaluation team in the Wikimedia Foundation's Community Engagement department. Harej (WMF) (talk) 23:11, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The recently updated learning patterns are missing!

The section of this page that lists the recently updated learning patterns has gone blank. I'm aware of the issue and am working on it. Harej (WMF) (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

It should be fixed now. Harej (WMF) (talk) 23:23, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

If we describe this page as "A collection of solutions and best practices in the Wikimedia world." then we may lead to only the obvious domain in the Cynefin framework.

Hi, there. I just read an article from Havard business review about the Cynefin framework . I feel a lot of learning patterns are not particularly obvious domain, however, they should belongs the other 3 domains in the Cynefin framework. Would it be possible to change the wording from "best practices" into only "practices" so we can include more possiblity here? (Here and here are the Simplified / Traditional Chinese version of the HBR article, BTW) --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 10:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Shangkuanlc that sounds fine to me. I like the distinction you point out--known knowns, known unknowns, etc. It's certainly true that learning patterns are supposed to reflect emerging strategies, not just well-established best practices. I wasn't aware of the Cynefin framework when I created the library, but I changed the wording to "effective" rather than "best" because of your observation. Does that work for you? Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 22:28, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

@Jmorgan (WMF):, I feel it's a good idea. Thanks for the reply. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 06:26, 7 June 2019 (UTC)