Talk:Www.wikipedia.org template/2006

Update

The Aragonese Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles, and I've updated the counts as well. (Jean-Christophe had already updated the counts, but probably wasn't aware of the temp page.) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, blog) 05:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Done.

James F. (talk) 22:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the article counts and rearranged the top 10 wikis to reflect the fact that the Polish Wikipedia has surpassed the Japanese Wikipedia. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The Uzbek Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The Cebuano Wikipedia has fallen below 1,000 articles. Hopefully this is only temporary, but I've updated the temp page to reflect that and some higher article counts. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Updated.

James F. (talk) 22:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The Cebuano Wikipedia has topped 1,000 articles again. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The Lojban Wikipedia has reached 100 articles; I didn't capitalize the language's entry, because that language doesn't even have a title case, whereas Spanish (for example) just doesn't capitalize language names in the middle of a sentence. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, the Portuguese Wikipedia has reached 100,000 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The Pashto Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The Venetian Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The Persian (Farsi) Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles, and the English Wikipedia has reached 980,000. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, the Sardinian Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The Waray-Waray Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles, but we should probably wait for the Swedish Wikipedia to overtake the Italian one, not too long from now, before updating. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

The Ladino (Judaeo-Spanish) Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

The Lombard Wikipedia reached 100 a while ago, but we missed it. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected an embarrassing typo on the portal: the English Wikipedia was at 1 000 002+ articles instead of 1 002 000+ articles, so I've updated the top ten with more current stats. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The Moldovan Wikipedia has voted to close itself down and merge with the Romanian Wikipedia, so I've crossed it out for the time being. [1] – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The Spanish Wikipedia has reached 100,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The Yiddish Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles, and the Swedish Wikipedia has passed the Italian one. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The Thai Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles. Please update; thanks. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 10:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The Dhivehi Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The Pennsylvania Dutch Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. We'll need to keep an eye on the Ripuarian (ksh:) and Pennsylvania Dutch (pdc:) Wikipedias, which are in the process of importing 3,202 and 1,370 articles, respectively, from off-site. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Per The Jade Knight's request, I've added in the Norman Wikipedia under the 100+ section, as well as the Baskhir Wikipedia, which has also reached that milestone. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I've also added the Cantonese Wikipedia under the 100+ section. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Done, thank you! Korg + ⁺ 04:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

A few tidying changes made as well a general update [2]. Please update. Trilobite 20:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Korg + ⁺ 21:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The Cornish Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, the Bengali and Haitian Creole Wikipedias have reached 1,000. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The french WIkipedia has 270,000 articles too.

The Dutch Low Saxon Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, the Ilokano Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 10:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The Turkmen Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The Franco-Provençal (Arpitan) Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 18:59, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The Gothic Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I've attempted to fix the horizontal scrollbar issue (see below) by tweaking some inline CSS. Please review the changes (you can follow the directions on Talk:Www.wikipedia.org template/temp to test it out). – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The Kapampangan Wikipedia has reached 1,000, and the Icelandic Wikipedia has reached 10,000. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

This template still needs to be updated, since Mark Ryan only took care of the Icelandic Wikipedia. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, Mark placed the Icelandic Wikipedia in the wrong position alphabetically. This is corrected in the temp version. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

And the Ripuarian Wikipedia has jumped up to 1,000 with out us noticing. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, it's about time! – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The Greek Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The Piedmontese Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be the day for smaller Wikipedias: the Tetum Wikipedia has also reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The Franco-Provençal Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles, and the Kyrgyz Wikipedia has reached 100. Please udpate. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The Wolof Wikipedia has also reached 100. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The Uyghur Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The Banyumasan Wikipedia has reached 100 articles, and the Dutch edition has reached 200,000. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The Bambara Wikipedia has also reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

The Basque Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The Kongo Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The Uzbek Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Done, thanks! Korg + ⁺ 01:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The Romany Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The Quechua Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The Piedmontese Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Korg + ⁺ 21:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The Avar Wikipedia has reached the 100-article mark, and the Napolitan Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Done, thank you! Korg + ⁺ 07:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The Urdu Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 18:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I was getting used to rearranging interwiki links, so I forgot all about the order here. Oops. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

The Samogitian Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The Ligurian Wikipedia has also reached 100 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The Nepali Wikipedia has reached 100 articles as well, and the Italian Wikipedia has surpassed the Swedish one. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The West Flemish Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:26, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The Manx Wikipedia has reached 100 articles; please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Done; thanks! Korg + ⁺ 05:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The Armenian and Friulian Wikipedias have reached 1,000 articles. Hopefully I won't have to make these requests much longer. :^) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The Bosnian Wikipedia has reached 10,000 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The Tajik Wikipedia has reached 100 articles. Please update. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, the Norman Wikipedia has reached 1,000 articles. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 18:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The Sinhala Wikipedia has reached 100 articles as well. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Urgent! The Commons logo image used here has been speedy deleted. I've replaced it with the newer SVG version. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The Meta logo was broken; I've fixed it. Also, I've converted most of the image URLs to use thumb.php so that this won't happen again. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

update

English WP now 900,000+ — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.86.72.83 (talk) 22:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Updated.

James F. (talk) 01:22, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Reposted from en:Talk:Main page

I wasn't sure where to post this, but could someone fix the text "Česká" on the wikipedia.org page (not this main page, rather the first page you come to when typing 'wikipedia.org' into your browser). It should read "Česky" , meaning [in] Czech. -- Hexagon1 14:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm just reposting the comment here, where people may be able to do something about it. Rspeer 22:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I have fixt that. If there is anything else you can ask me. --Walter 23:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedia moves up

Can someone move Polish Wikipedia above the Japanese one? It's bigger now. Ausir 22:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean? Or change it on the temp-version Www.wikipedia.org template/temp and ask for an update, so we can see what you mean. --Walter 22:46, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I have updated the article count for JA and PL --Walter 23:10, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Portuguese Wikipedia

Looking at the Portuguese Main Page, they seem to've broken the 100k mark, when the wikipedia.org lists them as only up to 96,000 articles. Someone was complaining about that on helpdesk-l. --maru talk 15:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've already updated the /temp page to reflect that, but we're waiting on an administrator to synchronize this page with it. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:37, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Interwiki NUMBEROFARTICLES variable

Please see (and perhaps vote for) Bug 1534, which requests the ability to include the number of articles in another Wikimedia wiki, via the {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} variable. This bug would enable us to automate this page, probably with help from the {{foreach}} and {{equal}} templates. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:51, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Come to think of it, since these templates consist of plain, unparsed HTML code, we can't automate it using the templates alone, but once this bug is fixed, we could revive Www.wikipedia.org portal and automate things that way. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

If we don't automate it, can we at least go back to a rounding convention, where we don't bother to update the larger Wikipedia's except for each 5 or 10,000 additional articles? There's no need for updating every time another 1,000 articles is written on some language edition. - Taxman 19:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

What we did before wasn't rounding, though: it was just keeping two significant figures rather than truncating at the thousands place. What that meant back then was that we truncated at the ten-thousands place for the 100,000+ editions, and at the thousands place for the 10,000+ editions. I think I'd be alright with truncating at the ten-thousands place from now on, since the top 10 are all above 100,000 now. But note that it's not the same as rounding: 219,000+ can't be rounded to 220,000+, because they don't have more (+) than 220,000 articles yet. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Well yes, I meant truncating, I just wasn't being specific. - Taxman 23:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Norman Wikipedia

The Norman Wikipedia now has 150 articles, and would like being listed on the portal. The Jade Knight 04:41, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added the Norman and Baskhir Wikipedias to the temp page (which you can edit too!); we just need an administrator here to synchronize the template with the temp page. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:41, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Forseti formatting

When/if is the Forseti formatting dicussed back in February coming in? Andrevan 23:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't exactly agreed upon, if I remember correctly. Maybe it's time to bring that issue back up, but I have a feeling that this design's already kind of established, since it's been up for so long. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:04, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Horizontal scrollbar on SeaMonkey

I'm running SeaMonkey 1.0, a Gecko browser like Firefox. The current portal page is sprouting a horizontal scrollbar on my 1280x800 screen - the scrollbar can't even be perceptably moved and there's no content out of view, but I just thought I'd note that. -- Mithent 11:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I get this in Firefox 1.5 too. It's a CSS issue: the div that contains the sister project links is set to have a width of 100%, which probably causes rounding errors. I've attempted to "fix" the issue at the temp page by setting the width slightly smaller: to 99%. Now we need to wait for a Meta administrator to approve the change and incorporate it into Www.wikipedia.org template. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks better now. Thanks! -- Mithent 11:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Icelandic Wikipedia

The Icelandic Wikipedia has just hit 10000 articles. Please update. --Notandi:Biekko 22:32, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedia

Word "encyklopedia" under the Polish wikipedia shouldn't be capitalized. (so it should be Wolna encyklopedia, not Wolna Encyklopedia). Michał P. 15:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. Korg + ⁺ 16:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Icelandic -> 10000+

Hi. The Icelandic Wikipedia made it to 10000 articles yesterday. It would be fun to be moved up to the correct catagory. Thanks --Smári McCarthy 16:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Smári, I've moved it up at the temp page, which you can edit at any time. Now we just have to wait for an administrator here to update the whole portal accordingly. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 22:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

italian

Hi folks! The label "articoli" (section "Italiano") has to be replaced with "voci", the italian word for encyclopedic content ("articoli" is used for newspapers), see this discussion. Thank you. --Iron Bishop 14:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected in "voci" the italian entry. Thank you. --M/ 16:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

nl.wikipedia.org has reached the 200.000 milestone

The Dutch Wikipedia has reached this milestone some days ago on 24 may. JePe 10:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

It's been updated. But please note that the /temp copy of the page was already updated to reflect this; we were just waiting for an administrator here to actually synchronize the two copies. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:27, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikisource's logo

As Wikisource doesn't need a photo as official logo, we should update it on main page. In #wikimedia-tech they gave me instructions to upload the new logo scaled 35px, which can be found here. I already updated the logo in /temp and I now please any sysop to do the same with the main template. Regards, Schaengel89 11:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Jdforrester Schaengel89 00:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Russian Wikipedia will have 100K articles soon

According to this prediction, it'll be in August. Shall we add it to those around the logo? MaxSem 18:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

How? It doesn't look to me like there's room. Why not keep it as top 10 languages? Looks better that way. --Spangineer^[en] [es] (háblame) 19:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Right: most of the top 10 editions were featured around the logo long before they reached 100,000 articles, so getting to 100,000 isn't why they're up there. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I got the idea. MaxSem 11:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

How many languages do you think we need before we add a 100,000 article section. Jeff8765 03:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest including the top 10 editions and Russian in a new 100,000-article section, so that the list won't be so small. That would also leave room for a million-article section in the future. The 10,000 section is only going to get longer over time, so we need to add a higher-level list and maybe – maybe – drop the 100-article list. That way we also don't have to figure out how many blue book images to place at the beginning of each section. :^) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there is room at the bottom of the logo (in between the Portuguese and Spanish Wikipedia links) to add the Russian wikipedia to those around the logo. --FreshFruitsRule 21:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I tested it out and on this revision of www.wikipedia.org template/temp I made a version which has the Russian Wikipedia in between the Portuguese and Spanish Wikipedias (on the bottom of the logo). I tested it out using that hixie site, and it appears to work well. The permanent link to the version I made at temp is at: [3] --FreshFruitsRule 22:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks alright, but it's only a temporary measure. The Chinese Wikipedia already has over 80,000 articles, and I don't think it'll make sense to keep adding to the already-overcrowded logo section. I think we should keep the logo section limited to the top 10 editions and create a new 100,000+ section that contains English through Russian. It'd be a bit redundant, but it allows for expansion. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 03:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

So, it finally happened. Let's decide something... MaxSem 17:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• I think the best option is to keep the top 10 around the logo, and then do what the English Wikipedia does: break the list up into 50k+, 25k+, 10k+, 1000+, 100+. The shorter each section is, the more readable and less cluttered it is. --BRIAN0918 19:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with Brian0918 that the Russian Wikipedia should not be put around the logo (it would look too cluttered), but I think that we should at least add Russian to the search part of the Template, as that can fit. This would make the search section on the front page look like this (with the Russian term for "Search" added beside "buscar" and the Russian language added to the drop-down list:

FreshFruitsRule 00:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I think what Russian Wikipedia should be put around the logo, because is no rule about top 10. Also the quantity of big wiki (100k+) still is not too much... --Swix 05:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

  True, there isn't a hard-fast rule about the Top 10, but that's how we've always done it, and this practice prevents overcrowding of the logo area. If I remember correctly, when we switched to this portal design, most of the languages in the logo area didn't even have 100,000 articles yet: they were included only because they were the Top 10.

  Although the addition of the Russian Wikipedia doesn't pose a big problem at the moment, the Chinese Wikipedia is getting quite close to the 100,000-article mark: what will we do then?

   – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Dear colleagues, I would suggest to redesign the logo a bit. I think it would be a good idea to add Russian and Chinese wikipedias, because a picture with Russian cyrillics and Chinese logographs would visually express the international nature of the project better. Now only Japanese hieroglyphs do (others are written in latin script). To save space, we could try to remove articles number information, considering that it have to be constantly updated, what is not good for a logo. Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 05:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The English Wikipedia recently had some discussion about representing the project's international nature on the list of language editions at their Main Page. The problem is figuring out what languages would expresses this international nature best. Some would propose displaying Cyrillic and Chinese characters as you do; others might argue that Devanāgarī (Hindi etc.) and Arabic and Hebrew would serve just as well. But we only have a little space around the logo, and I think that including Russian and Chinese due to their different writing systems would only lead to overcrowding in this top section, because everyone will believe their language deserves a spot.

I believe the ten Wikipedia editions with the largest number of articles deserve their placement around the puzzle ball, because they've worked hard to generate all these articles. If anything, the fact that most of the Top 10 languages are from Europe indicates that our non-Latin editions have a lot of work to do.

Also, note that the Japanese ideographs 日本語 are also valid Chinese ideographs, and that the links and article counts that surround the puzzle ball are not part of the logo: they surround the logo.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Just in case, Russian and Chinese both are United Nations official languages (two out of six) --217.67.117.64 19:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Please don't thread responses like that; it makes it much harder for others to know who said what and participate in the discussion. And Arabic, as it happens, is an official language at the UN as well. Placing 13 languages around the logo would make the page look a bit cluttered. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

In case you didn't realize, Russian is a European Language as well. --FreshFruitsRule 11:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I realize that, but I was responding to the suggestion that the languages that surround the logo should be restricted to ones that convey our internationalization, by including a wider variety of writing systems. Again, the Top 10 languages are there because they've worked hard to become the largest ten editions. If we use verifiable numbers (such as ranking or article counts) as our criterion for inclusion, we avoid all sorts of POV discussions.

For a brief period of time, I think the language list at the bottom of en:Main Page listed not only the ten largest editions, but also the ten most-spoken languages worldwide. That was a novel idea, but many of the most-spoken languages happen to have very small Wikipedia editions, so linking to them so prominently would be unfair to the Wikipedia editions that represent fewer people but have more articles.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps if we were to make the logo larger in size, we could increase the amount of languages surrounding the puzzle ball to 15 so that we could list the top 15 languages instead of the top 10, which would include Russian, Chinese, Finnish, Norwegian and Esperanto as well as the current top 10. --FreshFruitsRule 11:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC).

Increasing the size of the logo might introduce issues with lower-resolution screens. Some people still use 640×480, for example. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

A couple of things:

• Could you please add Russian to the search box as indicated above.
• So if we don't put Russian around the logo, it will now be forever stuck in the honorable "10 000+" zone below. May I suggest we create something like "100 000+, but language not elite enough for the logo" zone, or something to that effect. Csman 17:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

My proposal above was to create a 100,000+ section that included all the languages with 100,000 articles or more, since "100,000+ except the ones shown above" is hard to convey in a multilingual fashion. I viewed this as a nice compromise, because the Top 10 "elite" still got prominent placement around the logo – which I think looks kind of neat – while the other 100,000+ languages aren't stuck with much smaller editions like Georgian.

Regarding placing Russian in the search menu, what do we do when a couple other language editions reach 100,000 articles? Remember that we also have to put each language's translation for "search" right above the search box, and the more languages that are listed above that box, the more it just looks like a big jumble of unintelligible words (to non-hyperpolyglots, that is). To me, the best solution for the search box would be to get rid of the "search" translations and place a small magifying glass image to the left of the search box.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

How about Image:Magnify-elian.png? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Not sure I understand. Does the dropdown menu go away too with this magifying glass? If you are concerned about "search suche..." on top, we could just put those words into the existing dropdown to have "Search in English/Search in French..." instead of the current plain "English/French...". That way, all those words on top of search box will be nicely hidden in the dropdown and everyone will still know it is search. Csman 06:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I think we must put all lang editions around the logo and in search box, who reach 100,000 articles, because they've also worked hard to generate all these articles. --Swix 05:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The current design gives some languages way too much credit and others almost none, creating an impression some languages are not "kosher enough" as I sarcastically mentioned earlier. Everyone works hard on their WP, it just didn't catch on early enough in some countries. Csman 06:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Hence my proposal: keep the Top 10 ring as is, but add a 100,000+ list to reward the editions that have worked hard enough to reach 100,000. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Logo with Ru text

One of Russian users created a logo with the Russian text in the bottom. In my opinion, it in no way looks cluttered. More, I feel, it's even better than the current logo: with the Russian text in the bottom, the iwiki texts look like laurels of fame, while current logo looks cropped. Take a look, please! Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 09:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

That's a great implementation! And for those people worried about more languages having 100000+ articles, the only one that's close to it is Chinese, and it still has about 1-2 months to go. The rest of the languages will get there no earlier than 6 months from now and I think that there'd be more than enough time to add each new "major" language to the top of the front page.

Also, having that section reserved for the Top 10 makes it look like a competition for which language has the most articles, and this would definitely influence the creation of poor quality stubs to increase those article counts.

I say we don't encourage this kind of behaviour, and set up everything so that the users would concentrate on the quality and not the quantity.--Lenev 14:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the comment above, and that having only the top 10 languages featured on the www.wikipedia.org page makes it seem like a competition for which language has enough articles to be featured on the main page, and that will influence the creation of poor quality articles. I believe this could be resolved by listing more major languages around the logo or by listing the best quality language editions rather than the best quantity language editions. around the logo. --FreshFruitsRule 23:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I can say I agree with both Lenev and FreshFruitsRule that listing the top 10 language editions will make it seem like a competition, but I have to say I object to listing the best quality editions, because although that is a good idea, how would we measure the quality of a language edition without bias? The only statistical way I can think of is measuring the length of the articles in each edition, but that would not be a good method because an article that is long isn't necessarily good quality. --216.106.103.3 23:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying that Vladimir's proposal has any problems now, but I think we should also plan for the when the other languages get to 100,000. Every time we move these languages around, we likely confuse scores of users, forcing them to look around for their language again. We have to move languages around when we promote them, of course, but let's not change the layout too often. Say we move Russian up to the top, then move it back down again when Chinese or some other language reaches 100,000. Yes, it won't be for a few months, but it's still going to happen, and we'll be sending our visitors searching each time we shuffle things around.

If we create a complete 100,000+ list, we make the changes more predictable. I figure we'll eventually have to create this list anyways, once having 100,000+ articles is as ordinary has having 10,000+ articles is now.

Incidentally, I think listing all the 100,000+ wikis around the logo encourages the creation of low-quality articles (such as those year stubs...). If we list only the Top 10, a wiki (let's call it "A") might be able to rise to the Top 10 by creating stubs, but with that method A will quickly fall out of contention, because the wikis that focus on quality don't rely on stubs so much; they'll quickly outpace A. We saw that happen, to some extent, with the Italian Wikipedia: they created an article on every French and Italian placename and quickly rose to fifth (?) place, but other wikis soon caught up, sending it back down to eighth place. If we list all the 100,000+ wikis around the logo, a wiki that creates several thousand stubs to get to 100,000 will remain at the top even if it never grows beyond that.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I suppose, we should elaborate a picture, that will include wikis in all languages, but in font size according to the wiki's size (logarithmic articles number). I will allow us to remove the article count, while preserving information about the wiki size. I think, this will solve all the problems above. And as a temporary solution, while we are creating the new design, I'd propose to add single Russian link for PR reasons: this may do some hype in the Russian media. What do you think? Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 22:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

So then, what should we do? We could do as I suggested above and place the wikipedias with the highest quality around the logo and then order them by quality. This would encourage the creation of many high-quality articles rather than many low-quality stub articles, which would in the long run help resolve Wikipedias greatest problem: Low-quality articles. --FreshFruitsRule 23:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

How do you suggest we gauge "quality"? We do have up-to-date statistics on the number of words at most of our projects [4], but the numbers for the English Wikipedia haven't been updated since June, and Erik Zachte's statistics often aren't updated for months at a time, making them a bit less reliable than the article counts. Anyhow, I like your idea, but we'd have to refactor the entire page quite a bit. For example, we'd have to replace the book icons with some kind of image that conveys the notion of "word". Any suggestions? Also, we'd have to publicize this discussion a lot more if we want to make a substantial change like abandoning the article counts; I don't think the community would appreciate us changing the page like that without wider consensus. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

People, these are all valid points and we definitely need to continue this discussion on the quality/quantity problem. However, the Russian Wikipedia has already reached about 101000 articles and it's still in the 10000+ list.

Now we have two options, to put it near the logo OR to create a 100000+ section for the non-Top 10 wikipedias. Soon we may be adding the Chinese & Finnish wikipedias to that list.

For now I will try the second option and we'll see how it looks, but I have a feeling that Russian's going to look pretty lonely at least until the other languages catch up.

P.S. I'd like to hear people's opinion on this.--Lenev 19:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I've edited the Temp (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Www.wikipedia.org_template/temp), put the code into a HTML generator and look.--Lenev 19:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Russian does look pretty lonely right now. Would anyone be willing to try my suggestion and include the Top 10 languages in that 100,000+ list as well? It's just ten extra links. :^) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that sounds good, try it.--Lenev 14:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've tried it on the temp page, and it looks good to me. I'm a little concerned, though, that the row of book icons for the 100,000+ list might be too long: it might wrap to the next line when viewing the page with lower resolutions. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 16:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've decreased it by 1 image (from both sides) and I don't think it would be a problem for any resolutions anymore. Personally, I think it's good to go. --Lenev 19:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks good. Csman 22:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for working on this, Lenev. I think it looks good, but I'm not comfortable making these changes live, since I'm a relatively new admin and it's clear from the discussion above that there are some users here who disagree with this approach. I'll publicize this at Meta:Babel. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't you think each opinion (excepting administrators, of course) represents a community of wikipedians of a language? Do not hesitate to approve! Mashiah Davidson 01:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Some time ago I had a discussion here [5] on the amount of links surrounding The Globe. It looks like if the independent member is ok with extended design of the logo. Mashiah Davidson 01:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The best solution for the moment Chineze wikipedia reach 100 000 is to move english at the top of the logo and shift other languages. The final logo gets having 12 items like a clock-face. Note that en:Sexagesimal tightly connected to Babylon. Mashiah Davidson 01:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly why I've hesitated to change the portal: some people want Russian (and eventually Chinese) added around the logo, and others (including me) would like to have a 100,000+ list instead. I've pushed for the 100,000+ list because it's inevitable that a lot of languages will eventually reach 100,000 articles, and continually stuffing them in the logo area isn't a very future-proof solution.

Also, many of us at Meta are speaking as individuals, not as representatives of a whole Wikipedia community. Certainly we've got embassadors etc. here, but I'm certainly not speaking for the Vietnamese Wikipedia community (which never had a discussion on the subject), and Dr. Bug and Csman probably aren't speaking for the Russian Wikipedia. These are our personal opinions, which is why I've sought more opinions.

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:08, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

You know that in countries like Russia there are a lot of people who don't feel free writing English. This is the reason why we may assume that each person using english rarely represents their compatriots here.

I am a bit surprised your actions are caused by disagreement. I see that we have two opinions each is well-argued. Is this enough to put to the vote?

What do you think about the question: "What is of higher priority twelve around or two lonelylanguages?" Mashiah Davidson 15:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

This question don´t looks in the future. The decision we make now should solve the problem for the next years. It makes no sense, when we discuss each time a new language reached the 100K level. I prefere the idea of Minh Nguyễn with the Top 10 around the ball and a new 100,000+ section. So it looks like Wikisource and Wikiquote with the top 10 solution too. By the way: for wikibooks I prefere a Top 10 solution too. -- W like wiki 16:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

(Breaking indent.) Wow, I hadn't even noticed the Wikibooks portal! That page is a strong argument in favor of my proposal; it shows just how messy the Wikipedia portal could become if we keep adding more languages around the logo. Mashiah, my proposal is not to have "two lonely languages", because the 100,000+ list will include the Top 10 editions, meaning that the list will contain 11 links. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd say it is actually a pretty strong counterargument, since it shows that other project's admins think this looks good enough to go on the portal. But that doesn't matter (構いませんよ), I don't mind your proposal -- it will give us (ruwiki) another incentive to grow and another goal to achieve. Csman 18:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, we could put the languages in a circle around the Wikilogo. English at the top leaving a place for Russia, China at the bottom. Well that's just an idea, I'm not a web page design expert though... --Yamakiri 11:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

thumb.php

Please stop using thumb.php. You can just link directly to the thumbnail image on upload.wikimedia.org. It's much faster and it has a 404 handler that will regenerate the image in case it has been deleted by MediaWiki. -- Tim Starling 04:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

New 100,000+ section

Okay, a week after my post at Babel and with the support of at least three others here, I've added the complete 100,000+ list (which includes Russian). This approach is a bit redundant, since it provides two links for each of the ten largest editions, but this is done to make the lists more predictable in the future. Feel free to argue away; this portal is still far from the perfect way for visitors to select their language. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's great. Keep up the great work! :-)

James F. (talk) 23:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, hard working. After a long discussion like this I was a bit afraid, that it will last for ever without any changing. Good work. Good decision. Tanks Minh Nguyễn, Lenev and all the others. -- W like wiki 23:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, this portal tends to accumulate lots and lots of talk, such as the discussion about language sorting last summer that never really got resolved, and the earlier attempt at merging Catherine's design with Forseti's that never went anywhere. :^) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur; thank you for your good work! Korg + ⁺ 14:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

it.wiki at 200k

it.wikipedia has now more than 200k articles (clap clap clap) :-) --piero tasso 14:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations! I've updated the portal. Korg + ⁺ 16:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Chinese Wikipedia will have 100k acticles

The effect of adding ru and zh around the logo on the main page

Chinese Wikipedia will have 100k acticles. I personally think that is is the right opportunity to put the link of Chinese Wikipedia (and Russian as well) around the logo. I don't think that the rule should be fixed forever that only top 10 languages can do so. Did you know that there are more than 1.3 billion people using Chinese as their first language? So, as Chinese Wikipedia has a new milestone, I think it is the time to break the old rule. -- Kevinhksouth 09:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you read the discussions above? Soon it won't be practical to include every language that has over 100,000 articles around the puzzle ball. Then we'll have to make a decision: limit the number of languages in the logo section to 12 (which would seem very arbitrary to the possibly vocal Finnish, Norwegian, and Esperanto speakers who will get left out) or reduce the number back to ten (which means eventually removing Russian and Chinese). Or we can redesign the page, but the last attempt to update the portal design didn't go very far. So which would you prefer, if we include Russian and Chinese in the logo section? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it is reasonable to add Russian and Chinese in the place which contains major Wikipedia languages (around the logo in this current design). 145 million people are first-speakers of Russian, while 1.3 billion people are first-speakers of Chinese. Also, they both are the official languages in United Nations. In conclusion, because of the popularity and importance of both languages, they are worth being considered as major Wikipedia languages. From the capture above, I think 12 languages are still acceptable to be put in. Nevertheless, if most people think that it is not practical to put 2 more languages around the logo, I support redesigning the page. -- Kevinhksouth 03:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Forseti's proposed design

While I think you have a point about Russian and Chinese being major enough, I think that having 12 languages around the logo really stretches this design, turning what's currently a very simple, friendly listing into a somewhat cramped layout. (Just two additional languages can do that.) I'd very strongly support a redesign, but you'd have to help me convince the rest of the Meta/Wikipedia community that a redesign is necessary. I'm certain that, by now, many Wikipedians have grown attached to the current design, so it'll be an uphill battle to convince everyone that we've started to outgrow it. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

What you're asking for is certainly possible with the alternative that Forseti proposed a bit late into the design competition way back when. You can still see what his design looks like to the right. (To test a live preview of the design, follow the directions at Talk:Www.wikipedia.org template/temp, using this template code, replacing $1 in that code with the source code of the portal body.) Basically, at this point, the "ring" idea no longer works, because the webpage has only so much room for a ring of languages. The only other option I see is to remove "The Free Encyclopedia" or the article count from each of the Top 10 languages, so that there is enough room. But then why would we even have the languages around the logo, since we could easily just keep the 100,000+ listing below it? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

22-month time is not short in my point of view. However, many people in the Wikipedia community, who are having vested interest already, do not prefer to have a change. It is too difficult to convince the community to have a new design. Sigh... Moreover, so far only Minh Nguyễn join this discussion, and other people just ignore it. (Even no Russian or other Chinese Wikipedians come out to give comments!) I think I have to give up now. I will be back when there are people suggesting having a redesign. (P.S. Forseti's proposed design is also quite good, and I think that putting 12 languages in the top area still looks pretty good. ) -- Kevinhksouth 17:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

People usually don't pay attention to this page. I posted a message about this issue at Meta:Babel some time ago, but got no response. Maybe you could try there, or at the Russian and Chinese Wikipedias' embassies or "Village Pumps". – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we should redesign. But if we do limit it to ten languages over 100,000 articles, then I think we should have the languages with the greatest number of speakers in those ten spots. So, even if Finnish and Esperanto make it to 100,000, I think we'd be well justified in not including them in the ten featured on the default page. But keeping Russian and Chinese off simply because they arrived late is absurd. If anything, Wikipedia is far more valuable to these countries (and their hundreds of thousands of speakers) than otherwise groovy languages like Dutch.—w:en:User:Perceval

Using this criteria (and the List of languages by number of speakers) we would have the following list of languages on the front page: Chinese, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Japanese, French, German, Italian, Polish. Dutch and Swedish (beautiful languages though they are, and likewise accomplished in their article counts) would be left off. I think this is both practical (as far as our aims of spreading information) and reasonably fair.—w:en:User:Perceval

I guess that's fair. (And if article count is no longer the only criteria for listing a language at the top, then we should get rid of the article counts in that section.) However, changing the criteria for the Top 10 is almost like changing the page's design, so you'd need to propose your idea on a well-traveled page and solicit opinions there, before any administrator here would be willing to make that significant a change. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I emphatically believe that the Forseti design should be implemented. It's worlds better than the current design, and it scales. Andre (talk) 07:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Link

What do people think about "discussion" link to this page from the portal page? -en:User:Raveave 03:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean so that people can give feedback and suggest ways of displaying so many languages in an orderly fashion? I like that idea, but Meta is so English-centric that I don't think it would fit with the multilingual portal's mission of being... multilingual. Then again, the "complete list" that the portal links to is also in English, so maybe you have a point. Is anyone else in agreement? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I strongly support this. It fits perfectly with the openness and collaborative nature of the projects. I doubt there would be any objections to this, so to me it could be implemented right away. I'll wait for feedback here, and in case there's no negative opinions, I'll add the link myself to the /temp page. 87.196.212.165 17:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC) I didn't notice I was logged off. Signing now: Waldir 18:08, 23 March 2008 (UTC)