Grants talk:PEG/WM PH/Wiki Loves Monuments Exhibit

Some questions

Thanks for this one as well Roel. I think the feasibility of having organised these exhibitions mostly depends on the opportunity you have to develop new projects in cooperation with the NCCA. Hence, my questions are the following:

1. What kind of coordination you can get from the NCCA for further projects? What is the current status of the cooperation you have with them? Did they bring you any support during Wiki Loves Monuments 2012?
2. Can you tell us more about the endorsement on holding Wiki Loves Monuments 2013? Does it mean that you can provide an additional founding source through the cooperation with the NCCA? What are the other types of support you can get from them?
3. Do you have any plans for the schedule of the exhibitions? I suppose that photographs from last year's contest will be displayed all the time, but are there any other activities as part of the exhibitions (e.g. speeches, presentations, discussions etc.)?
4. How were the cities that will host these exhibitions selected? I assume that the answer on this question should come from anyone working in the NCCA, but please share something more about if you know. What do you think is the potential to reach out to new parties in these cities?

Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kiril, thanks for your very interesting questions.

1. Our goal is to obtain NCCA accreditation, which would make it less bureaucratic to obtain their endorsements whenever we have projects in the future. NCCA accreditation also ensures easier access to other agencies under their umbrella namely the National Museum (GLAM), Commission on the Filipino Language (Wikipedia and Wiktionary in Philippine languages), National Library (GLAM) and the National Archives (GLAM).
2. As for the endorsement of the 2013 Wiki Loves Monuments, I'm confident that it won't be as difficult to obtain as compared to last year's request. I have to be honest though that I don't intend to compete with other artists and cultural groups or scholars for the measly grants being provided by the NCCA since I believe they will need it more, on the other hand side I have received word from Ramon Aboitiz Foundation of their interest in working with us in our endeavors, I might as well explore the chance seeing an opportunity for sponsorship.
3. Definitely the winning photographs will be displayed all the time, plus I requested the NCCA project coordinator to allocate time for us to make a presentation about WLM and the GLAM-Wiki movement.
4. I'm not privy to their criteria of cities chosen, I had to skip two cities, because they will already run in conflict with the schedule of WLM. But as I could see, these are the cities that have well-preserved (Philippine standards) cultural heritage structures. As answered in no. 3, a foundation has already noticed our thrust in potentially working with us on our endeavor. -- Namayan (talk) 15:45, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your answers Roel. I have no more questions and would like to wish you a good luck with these activities and your future cooperation with the NCCA.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Kiril, I hope others will find it that way too. -- Namayan (talk) 14:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Currency and aim of the project

Thank you to have submitted your project. I have two concerns: one is the currency. The total budget is ~10.000 USD but it would be better to have a column also with the comparable value in US dollars. In addition I have not understood completely what you mean with "exhibit". The cost of each exhibit is high but I don't understand the advantage to have them. --Ilario (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ilario, I have added a rate in USD. When we prepared the budget, we found it was a huge amount for a series of exhibits of WLM Philippines photos. However, we believe that the money will be well spent in order to be within the radius of organizations recognized by the National Commission on Culture and the Arts (NCCA), which has several agencies under it (National Museum, National Archives, National Library, etc.), which we are planning to tap for GLAM activities after this year. Unfortunately in the Philippines, organizations really knock on the door of government agencies to obtain recognition or accreditation. Only when this accreditation is granted when an organization becomes "credible" because they have passed the standards set by the government. Such recognition weighs heavily in our bid to attain "certified NGO status" (which allows donations to be tax deductible) which looks at accreditations earned by an NGO. For a relatively young organization it will be a breakthrough if we earn it. -- Roel (talk) 06:57, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Budget

Although I understand the idea and fully support it, the budget seems for me a bit strange. First of all - if the cost of printing of the photos is just 750 USD and the cost of shipping is $4,500 - would not be better to print them locally? There is no printing houses in destination places? The second thing - do you really need 4 to 5 people to prepare and conduct the exhibiton? Why so many? My experience with similar exhibitions in Poland is that there is enough to have 2 people of which only one needs to be a wikipedian (to provide a workshop and organize everything) and the second one can simply be a local person who can help arrange pictures etc.. Puting together 12 pictures on walls or easels is not a big deal.. Polimerek (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Great questions Polimerek!

1. Since we would be arriving at the venue a day before the exhibit dates we would like to dispense the team the task of looking for printers. Just to given an example and based on our experience we have members from Naga City (Pop. 175,000) some 387 kms SE of Manila and regional center of Bicol who couldn't locate local manufacturers of roll-up tarpaulins in aluminum case. They requested us to have it made in Manila and ship it to them. I'm afraid of that scenario.
2. Perhaps you can see how we set-up our exhibits. That image was from the launch of Wiki Loves Monuments in March 24, 2012, only this time the photos would be printed on sintra boards. The lighting fixture is actually just strapped on top of the easel stands after we install their wiring. Due to our limited storage space, we detached the wires, and stored the lamps back to their boxes. So all these wiring, set-up would have to be redone and undone after the exhibit. For that we need extra hands plus the carrying of our LCD projector, easel stands, etc. -- Roel (talk) 02:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Well - if I understand the reason for printing the pictures in Manila - still don't understand why local people cannot help with preparation of the event under control of one skilled person who has experience with this... Same with LCD projector, stands etc - why not to ask local people to help carying it ? Does the exhibition needs to be so sophisticated technologically? We usually put the picture on easels or directly on walls and thats it... And it works... Polimerek (talk) 21:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I totally understand your argument, why should we shoulder four people, when one or two will do, if we can get help from locals. Normally local organizers would just provide you the space where you need to set-up. And based on personal experience local organizers of events are busy with other stuff too, we're not the only organization who will be participating there. We are being allowed to participate for free, in most cases when organizations would like to participate in events like these they pay a certain "sponsorship fee", I believe the least we can do is come "prepared". I think there's a cultural aspect among Filipinos that you should be less of a worry when you are have already been accommodated or given a free ride. Filipinos are very hospitable, but it's proper and polite here to refuse their "further" assistance because you have to be considerate too, to give you an example, if you happen to visit a Filipino household at the time they're having their meal, they'll offer you to sit down and eat with them, and even if you're hungry you should politely thank them and turn the offer down.
Apart from the exhibitions there's we'll be there presenting and promoting the 2013 edition of Wiki Loves Monuments Philippines, so we're not there to simply hang pictures. -- Roel (talk) 22:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Basically I have the same concerns. I don't understand better why paying the trip of three people to have this exhibition and anyway 12.000 USD seems to be really high (4.000 USD per person only for transportation). By 12.000 USD you may rent a personal aircraft! --Ilario (talk) 18:46, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I think comparing the entire budget to renting a personal aircraft is unfair because it creates an impression of extravagance, when the budget has different components that have been carefully itemized with their respective allocations. I believe, the rationale to send 3-4 people have been explained above.
If one needs to question the cost of travel, I believe one has to travel around the Philippines to understand it. Sometimes airfare isn't enough because you have to take a buses and a whole lot of array of different transportation including ferries. Maybe playing around the website of Philippine Airlines would give you an idea if you were to book a Manila to General Santos (serves Sarangani area) a month ahead at least, it costs around ₱6,830 ($171), the budget airline Cebu Pacific comes up with ₱5,980 ($150), if you are lucky you can get the same fare going to Hong Kong, Singapore and Bangkok. For this reason, Manila-based Filipinos would rather travel to Hong Kong (~1.5 hrs away), Singapore (~4 hrs away) or Thailand (~4 hrs away) than domestically. -- Roel (talk) 20:50, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Support

Hi, I support this. It looks like a good investment for the future of WLM 2013. NLIGuy (talk) 21:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Scale down needed

I am concerned about the cost versus anticipated benefit of this proposal. In particular, travel to regions where local volunteers are not available does not make sense. Our experience suggests a local editing community is essential for the success of outreach efforts. I am also concerned about the relative brevity of the exposure period for the exhibits. I would like you to consider the experience of some other travelling exhibitions, e.g. by Wikimedia Polska, Wikimedia Israel, and as documented on commons, to look for ways to generate more exposure for a longer time.

Please consider scaling this proposal back. We will not fund it as it stands. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 21:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Status?

Please indicate if you see a way to significantly scale this down. If not, we deem this proposal to be of insufficient benefit relative to cost, and will not fund it. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 00:04, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Not funded

Since this proposal was not reworked in over a month, we have decided to not fund it. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 21:51, 23 July 2013 (UTC)