Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Finnish Sign Language
Finnish Sign Language Wikipedia
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| submitted | verification | final decision |
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This language has been verified as eligible. The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval and will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert. If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval. |
- The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
- The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
- The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
| What | Value | Example / Explanation |
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| Proposal | ||
|---|---|---|
| Language code | fse (SIL, Glottolog) | A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ... |
| Language name | Finnish Sign | Language name in English |
| Language name | Suomalainen viittomakieli | Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ... |
| Language Wikidata item | Q33225 - item has currently the following values:
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Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed. |
| Directionality | no indication | Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)? |
| Links | Finnish Sign Language in the Finnish Wikipedia , The Finnish Association of the Deaf (FAD) | Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents. |
| Site URL | fse.wikipedia.org | langcode.wikiproject.org |
| Settings | ||
|---|---|---|
| Project name | "Wikipedia" in your language | |
| Project namespace | usually the same as the project name | |
| Project talk namespace | "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace) | |
| Enable uploads | no | Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons. If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons. |
| Optional settings | ||
| Project logo | This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation). | |
| Default project timezone | Europe/Helsinki | "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones) |
| Additional namespaces | For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk". | |
| Additional settings | Anything else that should be set | |
Proposal
editThe Finnish Sign Language is the first language of about 5000 people. The Finnish Sign Language is mentioned in the Finnish Constitution and this way it is recognized by the state as a natural language. In Finland speakers of the Finnish Sign Language hold a right to use it as their mother tongue.
The Finnish Sign Language community is also interested in to work with the Americal Sign Language community, which recently have made a request of Wikipedia in an American Sign Language.
Discussion
editArguments in favour
edit- Support Support The Finnish Sign Language community is active and with interest on new technology and its possibilities to strength their language and culture. I assume that when there will be more requests of Sign Languages in the Wikipedia, some of the innovations made among the Finnish Sign Language community can be replicated to other sign language projects, too. --Teemul 19:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- Support Support. -Support Montenegrin Wikipedia CRNOGORSKI PATRIOTA
- Support Support (Unlogged Airon90 (talk · contribs · CA)) --87.8.142.142 18:39, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
- Support, sounds perfectly reasonable to provide a Wikipedia so that native FSL-signers don't have to use a foreign language to read Wikipedia. --Yair rand (talk) 04:47, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
- @Teemul, CroForge, Airon90, and Yair rand: If you all think that this sign language Wikipedia should be created, start at incubator:Wp/fse, otherwise I see no reason that this is eligible. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:30, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Arguments against
edit- Oppose Oppose Finnish sign language is not a written language per se. Anyone who knows Finnish Sign Language is much more likely to speak Finnish anyways, so their efforts would be much better concentrated there. Monobi (talk) 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
- Sign languages are written languages. The script is called SignWriting. There is an extension for MediaWiki called the SignWriting MediaWiki Plugin that has an alpha release. SignWriting will be added to Unicode; it's only a matter of time. There are several ways to encode SignWriting into Unicode. I prefer the plane 4 solution which you can see in action with this "Hello world" page. Regards, Steve 01:52, 17 December 2008
- With your argument we could as well close the Finnish Wikipedia (150 000 articles), too. People who know Finnish also speak most likely English too, so their effort would be "much better" concentrated in there? The point of having Wikipedia in Sign Languages is a matter of having the equal opportunity to operate and study in your native language. --Teemul 22:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, but there's still a serious question: does Finnish Sign Language have a written form? If not, do you have a written form in mind, and is it appropriate to create a written form for Wikipedia, or should we wait until it's actually in use in the community first?--Prosfilaes 00:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- Please be aware, that there is no rule, that Wikipedia must be written down. They could video-tape their signing and publish videos on their Wikipedia instead of written articles. That would be uncommon and would make it hard, to edit articles wiki-like, but it is not illegitimate.
- But of course I too want to know, whether there is a written form of Finnish sign, whether it is displayable in Unicode and whether it is well-known in the Finnish sign community. (Cause writing is easier than video-taping) --::Slomox:: >< 16:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
- There may be no written rule that Wikipedia must be written down. I find the use of that fact as a justification to go charging ahead like a bull in a china shop disturbing. 100% of existing Wikipedias are in writing, and the costs of using a video format are huge, in bandwidth, in limited accessibility, in editability. A video-only Wikipedia should accept that it's breaking a de facto rule that's stronger than many de jure rules.--Prosfilaes 22:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
- Even if the Finnish sign Wikipedia will be extremely popular among the 5000 Finnish signers, that won't mean any bandwidth threat for Wikimedia, I guess. But I too favor a written one. --::Slomox:: >< 02:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- There may be no written rule that Wikipedia must be written down. I find the use of that fact as a justification to go charging ahead like a bull in a china shop disturbing. 100% of existing Wikipedias are in writing, and the costs of using a video format are huge, in bandwidth, in limited accessibility, in editability. A video-only Wikipedia should accept that it's breaking a de facto rule that's stronger than many de jure rules.--Prosfilaes 22:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose Oppose Doesn't seem like there'd be many people to form a community for this, and what's wrong with them using fi.wikipedia? Stifle 08:49, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- Let's keep fi.wikipedia out of this. Their native tongue is not Finnish, and the fact that most of them speak it is no more relevant than any of a hundred other languages with Wikipedias that aren't the dominant language of their land.--Prosfilaes 18:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose Oppose like monobi--Ilaria 13:47, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose Oppose Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 05:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
WHY? Using effort to something as trivial as this?. Needing sign language to read?. There is better ways to use money than this.
- Oppose Entirely no project for too many years. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:51, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Not a written language. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 13:40, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose Not a written language. --Sharouser (talk) 03:42, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose I'll be honest, we should define a new rule to ban all requests for sign languages/non-written languages. Wheatley2 (talk) 03:18, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- There's no such thing as a non-written language in the 21st century. As pointed out above, there are written forms of sign languages, and every natural spoken language has been reduced to writing. The only thing left are conlangs, and given that I can't recall a non-written conlang, much less one proposed for a Wikipedia, I suspect we can cross that road when we get there.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Prosfilaes If this is non-written, then it should better be revoked from eligible status, right? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:19, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Again, there's no such thing as a non-written language in the 21st century, short of uncontacted peoples. Even sign languages have been written using Sutton Signwriting. There's no reason to worry about eligible status; before it can get a project, it has to have enough articles on the Incubator and have the text verified as being Finnish Sign Language by an expert.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- There's no such thing as a non-written language in the 21st century. As pointed out above, there are written forms of sign languages, and every natural spoken language has been reduced to writing. The only thing left are conlangs, and given that I can't recall a non-written conlang, much less one proposed for a Wikipedia, I suspect we can cross that road when we get there.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)