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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia French Simple 3

< Requests for new languages
submitted verification final decision
This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

A committee member provided the following comment:

Important: Please see closing comment below. For LangCom: StevenJ81 (talk) 17:56, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval.
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code fr-simple (SIL – uses ISO of general French language),
Ethnologue (uses ISO of general French language) 		A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Simple French Language name in English
Language name Français simple Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q83503 - item has currently the following values: Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you are an active contributor to the test wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL fr-simple.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org
Settings
Project name Wikipédia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace Wikipédia usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace Discussion Wikipédia "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Continent/City "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Proposal

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I propose creating a "Simple French" Wikipedia, based on en:français fondamental (in French: fr:Français fondamental), a simplified form of French developed by the French government in the 1950s for people learning French. The idea is viable because French is a major world language (L2) and because there is a standardized simple form that can be used as the basis of the project. The City of Montreal even has a simple French website: http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=2496,3086618&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL#haut - Several users in the Meta Babel have expressed an interest in this project: Meta:Babel#Simple_French_Wikipedia_proposal_based_on_fran.C3.A7ais_fondamental

In reviewing the failed proposal for Simple French, Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_French_Simple, I found that:

  • français fondamental was not mentioned
  • en:Simple English Wikipedia also does not have its own ISO code, but it does have standardized limited forms that can be used as a basis. The same situation exists with French.

In regards to common arguments:

  • If one is in favor of a "Wikipedia Kids" for Simple English or other simple versions of languages, one can develop "Simple French" now and then transfer the content later if "Wikipedia Kids" is approved as its own entity.
  • One person mentioned that it's difficult to impossible to cover complex topics with "simple" versions of languages. In general it may be difficult to introduce complicated/precise topics to relatively uneducated people and/or functionally illiterate people. Also, in some natural languages there may be a lack of words or concepts used to discuss modern/scientific topics. It is possible for natural languages to use loanwords, etc but with some languages it can become very complex or difficult. In some countries people switch to second or third languages just to discuss scientific and technical topics. I do not believe that not being able to discuss some highly scientific subjects should prevent this Wikipedia's development.

Who would be the audience? I would try to mirror Simple English Wikipedia

  • Adults from French speaking backgrounds who have learning difficulties, are functionally illiterate or are otherwise not well educated
  • Residents of countries with French as a second or third language (particularly those in Africa) who have had difficulty in learning French or have only learned a little bit of French. It can be helpful if their native language is not represented on Wikipedia, or if their native language is underdeveloped and/or has profound difficulty with scientific and/or modern topics, to the degree that it's easier to use simple French to communicate those topics.
  • Children from French speaking backgrounds (although some Wikipedians argue that because some subjects may not be child-friendly, the Wiki should not try to target children)

Someone told me about a June 2011 mailing list entry about a new decision from the language committe; the author said that a "simple" language can be approved if "the language should be a "world language" with many L2 users, and there must be a reliable, published specification of the controlled language to be used." He further added "It is likely that just Wikipedia in simple French would be approved."

Some previous places of discussion:

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Simple French Montreal website has not been updated since 2002. It seems that it is no longer funded, no longer supported by the political power. It would be good to get in touch with the authors Sylvie Rocque and Jacques Langevin at Université de Montéral to ask them what happened and what they think about the prospect of having a simple French wikipedia. Teofilo (talk) 12:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the idea! I sent e-mails to both of them, asking them what the prospects of a Simple French Wikipedia are. I linked to this page so they could see the proposal WhisperToMe (talk) 13:46, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Racoonish on the French Wikipedia pointed to the "RFI - Journal en français facile 21H TU" WhisperToMe (talk) 16:59, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update: A contributor below pointed out Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple French - In looking at the oppose side, some of the rationales seem simplistic, and the discussion is outdated as the Langcom has the 2011 decision (a user asks "What'll come next? "Simple Cantonese"? "Simple Inuktitut"?" but Langcom has stated that only major world languages would be eligible for simple). Also "français fondamental" is not mentioned in this discussion. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I especially wanted to point out Wikikids/Vikidia ! :-) Astirmays (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, ok :) - Since Wikikids has an entry here, it's fine to point it out WhisperToMe (talk) 21:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lot's of resources for this Wiki's existence, particularily here, in Canada where the federal government encourages bilingualism in French and English. As a result, there is material, especially within the Quebec Government, New Brunswick Government and Ontario Government for people trying to learn French as a second language. I am sure this is true with other places in the world too, however I'm not an expert on that. (As a side note to others on the first request that it is a lot easier and "simplified" to learn a Romantic language such as French, than trying to learning English, due to all the rules and lack of patterns in English.) (AGiorgio08 (talk · contribs) on 15:02, 16 July 2010)

See also:

Could they be merged into this one? WhisperToMe (talk) 06:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments in favour

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  1. Support has potential. Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 21:27, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support, per the argument made in the proposal. (I've only just come across this, by chance, but I think it's a very good idea.) A "Français simple" Wikipedia would be an excellent way of strengthening Wikipedia's multilingual approach, and of opening up content in major languages to native speakers of other languages. The Simple English Wikipedia has a double value: to provide access to users to content in English that they can more easily understand, while at the same time enabling them to improve their grasp of English. A "Français simple" Wikipedia would do the same. Bear in mind that many people learn French around the world, and that there are many countries where French is an official language without being the native language of the majority; such a project would be particularly useful in those contexts. The French Wikipedia has over 1.3 million articles, making it one of the most comprehensive encyclopediae of all time, in any language; a Simple French Wikipedia would thus have a lot of potential to grow. Aridd (talk) 15:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this would be very useful for French learners, and for the large number of second language speakers in Africa, Canada etc.-MacRusgail (talk) 22:54, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - fr:Lhommeayantdelajeunesse This would be useful in the same way simple english wikipedia would be useful. There is a large desire globally to learn French as a second language, and this would facilitate that as a starting point. Simple English Wikipedia has a large community because there are many millions of people around the world learning and trying to speak English, the same would be true for Simple French in my opinion. 13:02, 28 September 2016 (EST)
  • Support, as long as there's a Simple English Wikipedia, I can't understand why can't there be a Simple French Wikipedia as well. TerranBoy (talk) 12:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If this project gets denied, then Simple English Wikipedia should be deleted. It's just as useful as that wiki, helpful to those learning it, but not having a perfect knowledge of it yet. Wheatley2 (talk) 07:53, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

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  1. @AJona1992:

The language must have a valid ISO 639 1–3 code (search). If there is no valid ISO 639 code, you must obtain one. The Wikimedia Foundation does not seek to develop new linguistic entities; there must be an extensive body of works in that language. The information that distinguishes this language from another must be sufficient to convince standards organizations to create an ISO 639 code. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:11, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think it is not veru usefull to have two same-language WPs, the "simple" one will simply be a useless double of the "normal" one with very few development in it (cf. "simple English" : I don't think it is very useful too... anyway it exists, let me know why...), and the best to improve one's skills in a language is to have true texts in this language. SenseiAC (talk) 14:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Articles in a Simple French Wikipedia would be "true texts", but written in a way that is more easily understandable to non-native speakers. When someone is learning a language, you don't throw them straight into what is most complex. Aridd (talk) 15:58, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • English Wikipedia is very strong, very encyclopaedic, with more than 4 Million articles of excellent quality. French Wikipedia is much weaker, in quantity (1.2 Million articles) and above all in quality. French Wikipedia has not yet reached the status of a decent Encyclopaedia. Top priority should be to make French Wikipedia stronger, in particular by improving the quality of the articles. "Simple English" WP was justified by the fact that everybody on Earth speaks (or should speak) English. Who speaks French nowadays ? Who feels the urge to practice french nowadays ? Few people in fact. Euroflux (talk) 09:22, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Very weak-minded comment. Well, let's go to suppress the unnecessary wikipedia in french language. J'ai rarement vu autant de bêtise dans un seul commentaire... Open your mind ? Bourrichon (talk) 21:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Disons que si Euroflux ne s'était pas fait bloqué sur wf:fr (une forme de vengeance ?) ...94.228.187.87 15:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • C’est marrant mais j’aurais dit exactement le contraire d’Euroflux. La Wikipédia en français me semble de bien meilleure facture que celle en anglais. Quand je vois par exemple qu’un certain nombre d’article de la Wikipédia en anglais portant sur la Seconde guerre mondiale sont sourcés avec des sites révisionnistes, je tombe des nues ! Wikipédia en anglais manque à mon avis beaucoup de rigueur. Quant à l’usage du français aujourd’hui, c’est la langue la plus apprise et la plus parlée en tant que langue étrangère, après bien sûr l’anglais 78.250.170.177 21:19, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Contra No more simple projects please! We should use language converter instead of creating new simple projects. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:20, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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  • I had actually considered making this proposal a month ago, and think that it would be a great idea! French is a major, widely-used language, and this site could be very beneficial to those learning the language, or those who are not fully fluent in it. Especially useful in Canada! I wouldn't be able to contribute right away, since my French is below even this level, but I am doing my best to learn it and will gladly help when I get to an acceptable level. Ajraddatz (Talk) 20:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it is a good idea. Like English, French is a language which can be made simpler effectively (at least this is what I think as native speaker of both languages). If a small community of users were to get together, it would in my opinion make the project worthwhile. I would of course be happy to help. Yottie (talk) 19:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this project were started, I would be among the active early contributors. --Ansei (talk) 16:30, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Ansei and any other people, you are welcome to join Vikidia ! It just work as Wikipedia, but aimed at 8 to 13 years old children, and anyone that want some simplified content in French. It's nearly 6 years old now and is going quite well. It was mentionned here : Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple French and on Wikikids, which is the request for exactly what it is now. It was not implemented by the WMF, but by a group of teacher in dutch ( http://wikikids.wiki.kennisnet.nl/ ) , and a group of wikipedian in french (and then Spanish and italian). I think that a simple language and a children wiki should be the same one. A great part of Simple english Wikipedia probably fit well for children, and on the other hand, to recognize that the content should fit to children does not exclude other reader targets. I beleive that if its content were not relevant to older people, it wouldn't be good either for children. I'd love to see Simple english Wikipedia being rescoped into a Wikikids/vikidia. Astirmays (talk) 23:15, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for pointing the other conversation out there. I didn't know that Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Simple French existed. Anyway, I'll take a look at it. That conversation wasn't listed at Requests for new languages. This one isn't listed either... WhisperToMe (talk) 15:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think that I already pointed out that using a "restricted-vocabulary/word list" kind of language will effectively prohibit serious scientific writing. While this may not make a difference at the start, it will definiely be the death of a project in the long run. Given current rules/usage, any article from English Wikipedia can be "converted" to Simple English. Simple English does not rely on word lists, but insists on the subject being explained well. So far, the community has produced around 100 articles that went through a peer review process, and that were certified to meet certain standards. The standards cover scientific accuracy, as well as "writing skill". There are "word lists" for English (eg. that by Ogden), but in general, a "softer" approach is better: An article where the terms used are explained well, is also fine. As an example, take the Gothic architecture article at Simple English Wikipedia. The article needs to use certain terms, even if they are not on a word list. (compare the article at English Wikipedia, and the one in French). Given the subject, I don't see anything withstanding the creation of an article in this Simplified French, except that strictly relying on a word list, you will not be able to. So: in general, I am in favor of this project, but with the restriction that no word list is used as a requirement, rather the project should rely on good explanations, send article through a peer review, and mark the articles that meet certain standards. --Eptalon (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The proponent were unable to get support on the French Wikipedia, as show this discussion where his suggestion were met by laughings, mockery of the Montreal phonetic initiatve, and jokes about the value of a French Belgian version. In this context, I'm worried it will be difficult to find people to kickstart the project. I would like to get the "who will be the first editors" issue addressed first. --Dereckson (talk) 13:49, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - people who don't understand French well can just use a dictionary. πr2 (t • c) 19:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC) [reply]
    I'm already sceptical of simple:. I think this would be a very controversial version, maybe like even Moldovan. πr2 (t • c) 19:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC) Comments below convinced me. Change to: Support per answers below (in raison d'etre section). πr2 (t • c) 05:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: We can identify the native languages spoken in Francophone Africa and have the French Simple Wikipedia form contacts with them, so that readers of those Wikipedias can be redirected to the French and Simple French Wikipedias if it becomes impossible to write scientific topics in the languages. Significant non-European languages (and excluding Standard Arabic) in sub-saharan Francophone African countries include:
    Benin: Fon and Yoruba
    Burkina Faso: National languages are Mòoré, Mandinka, and Bambara - Total of 69 languages
    Burundi: Kirundi/Rundi
    Cameroon: 230 languages
    Comoros: Comorian (variety of Swahili)
    Republic of the Congo: Kongo, Lingala, and over 40 others
    DRC: Kikongo, Lingala, Swahili and Tshiluba are national languages and there are 215 total
    Djibouti: Somali and Afar
    Gabon: Fang and Myene - Also Mbere, Sira- Also other Bantu languages
    Guinea: Fula, Maninka, and Susu
    Ivory Coast has about 70 spoken languages, including: Baoulé, Sénoufo, Yacouba, Agni, Attié, Guéré, Bété, Dioula, Abé, Mahou, Wobé, Lobi
    Madagascar: Malagasy
    Mauritania: Pulaar, Soninke, Wolof, Bambara, Hassaniyya, Zenaga, Tamasheq
    Mali: Lingua francas: Bambara, Fula, Songhai - Others: Bomu, Tieyaxo Bozo, Toro So Dogon, Maasina Fulfulde, Hasanya Arabic, Mamara Senoufo, Kita Maninkakan, Soninke, Koyraboro Senni Songhay, Syenara Senoufo, Tamasheq, Xaasongaxango
    Mayotte (legally a part of France): Shimaore (Swahili) and Malagasy
    Niger: Hausa, Fulfulde, Gourmanchéma, Kanuri, Zarma, Tamasheq, and others
    Rwanda: Kinyarwanda (I know there's a push for English in Rwanda but officially French is still a language there)
    Senegal: National languages: Wolof, Soninke, Serer, Fula, Maninka, Diola - About 36 total
    Togo: 39 languages including Ewe and Kabiye
  • Several of these have Wikipedias.
    Afar (AA), Akan (AK)/Twi (TW), Bambara (BM), Fula/Fulfulde (FF), Hausa (HA), Kongo/Kikongo (KG), Lingala (LN), Malagasy (MG), Kirundi/Rundi (RN), Kinyarwanda (RW), Swahili (SW), Wolof (WO), Yoruba (YO)
    Also Dyula (DYU), Kabiye (KBP), and Ga (GAA) are in language testing
    It's possible Swahili may be able to make scientific topics well on its own, so check with editors at that Wikipedia to see if there's a need for a partnership with Simple English (for English-speaking countries with Swahili) and Simple French (for DRC, Mayotte, and Comoros)
    Other languages stretch into Anglophone countries (for instance Rwanda is adopting English, Hausa and Yoruba are also spoken in Nigeria, and Swahili is spoken in Kenya and Tanzania) so they can make contacts with the Simple English Wikipedia
  • In the Maghreb French is strong in commerce and business but not everybody is totally fluent in French. If Wikipedians start Wikipedias on the spoken varieties of Arab there, it may help to link to Simple French. Also Kabyle (a Berber language) has a Wikipedia under "KAB"
  • WhisperToMe (talk) 00:13, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed a typo PiRSquared17 (talk) 20:10, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support this could really help me learn French and I would be a major contributor on this wiki. Best, Jonayo! Selena 4 ever 23:56, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I would support, but the language proposal policy says that new wikis need an ISO-693-3 code. 'simple-fr' is not one. So oppose based on the rules, but support changing the rules. Sorry, but request again if the rules do get changed.--Seonookim (talk) 07:02, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support fr-simple in fact does follow the rules. Changing my mind.--Seonookim (talk) 06:49, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - To my knowledge Simple English doesn't have its own ISO code either. I checked the mailing list page where it was discussed the parameters of "simple" Wikipedias and the words "ISO" were not mentioned. My belief is that this project will "piggyback" off of the existing "fr" code. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

simple: was established before the language policy became established, just like Latin and Old English. If simple tried to apply today, it would not be passed. Also, "piggybacking" is still against the rules.Additionally, French Fundamental is, as I understand it, intelligible to French speakers. So it is not a language, and will never be unless it drastically changes, which is not happening. Also, this version lacks potential readership. Who reads it? I would prefer reading the actual fr: Wikipedia instead of a simple one, because the simple version would be very limited due to its lack of specific words. Finally, it would be a haven for banned users from other wikis, like simple, and would actually be worse - French is a less popular L2 than English is, and so will have less control over vandals wrecking its contents.--Seonookim (talk) 04:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read this post by a Langcom member? As for who would read it, see the "raison d'être" section below. PiRSquared17 (talk) 04:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: In regards to becoming a place for banned users, the French Simple project can learn from what happened on the English Simple project and take measures to prevent any problems. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:35, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Français simplifié => "Petit nègre" ou franglais?

fr:Français fondamental. πr2 (t • c) 19:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
comment this wiki has no iso 639-1 or 639-3 code. and they can't edit projects in simple languages in incubator wiki because the language proposal policy says that there must be a valid iso 639-1 or 639-3 code before creating a test project in incubator. we had simple: before the current language proposal policy. Vincentangeles005 (talk) 13:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate proposal I'd suggest adding "Simple" versions of articles as a tab or a drop-down option within the main encyclopedia itself. I don't think that creating a separate project will be as useful. Cf. Wikipedias_in_multiple_writing_systems such as Serbian, where you can choose between Cyrillic and Latin encodings of the language. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:57, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Koavf: How would such a conversion program work? With Chinese it's easy to convert vocabulary, but in English and French trying to simplify the language via converter software may be more difficult. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:53, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@WhisperToMe: Good question. I didn't clarify--I'm not anticipating some semi-automatic translation into simple versions of languages: these would be new articles freshly written (or in the case of Simple English, just merged). It would be another tab, just like "Talk" or "History". —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:10, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Koavf: I see... So the "simple" projects would in essence merge into their parent projects. Maybe there could be efforts to enable "simple French" article but that its exact destiny would depend on whether or not the merge happens. I don't mind either way as long as there is some simple form of French-language articles available for editing. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:56, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This idea is certainly possible. It would probably be handled best through adding another namespace (simple?) and then adding another tab up at the top of the page to go to it for each page. I've done something similar on a wiki before, so it does work. The issue I guess would be generating interest, though of course that is already a concern with these projects. Having them as a part of the bigger projects might even help with this. Ajraddatz (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Incubator test

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I don't see any incubator test running. Are WhisperToMe, Ajraddatz and Ansei going to address the lack of language code issue and start a real test on Incubator or could we consider this proposal like a lubie, without a serious attempt to show to the community what a Simple French Wikipedia could be. --Dereckson (talk) 13:57, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I asked the Incubator community on Incubator:Incubator:Community_Portal#Simple_world_languages if this would be possible. --Dereckson (talk) 14:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As stated at en:User_talk:Dereckson#simple-fr I was not aware that I needed to start a test wiki at this time. I will do what I can to make a test wiki. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In order to see whether the language is viable (as in: has the potential to attract editors), I propose that one of the articles from this list or that one are taken and "translated". In particular, what I am concerned with is the "ability to create scientific content". In my opinion, good candidates would be simple:Mimicry or simple:Color blindness. The articles of the first listing are generally longer, but adhere to a higher standard. Another item that needs to be discussed in the future is whether we need a "simple French Wiktionary" to work together with. --Eptalon (talk) 12:19, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The respective French articles are fr:Mimétisme and fr:Daltonisme--Eptalon (talk) 12:22, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me - As said above, there are natural languages that have trouble with science concepts (i.e. Hmong) but as I observed on the Simple English Wikipedia they do have ways of dealing with more complicated subjects. I'll ask the native French speakers to try making these articles WhisperToMe (talk) 13:01, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy to help with this incubator project, but have no idea about how it should be set up. If it can be set up, then we can get some users together to help. Regards, Yottie (talk) 14:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The incubator info is at Incubator:Incubator:Community_Portal#Simple_world_languages WhisperToMe (talk) 14:41, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As of writing, no new discussion in the incubator info page. In the meantime, what steps should I take now to open a test wiki? I want to open a test wiki ASAP WhisperToMe (talk) 21:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Raison d'être

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I don't understand the arguments for this proposal. The kids thing already exists: [1]. The only argument I see as valid is the one about Francophone Africa, but I don't understand why this can't be done on a namespace of frwiki itself. πr2 (t • c) 05:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also the illiterate adults rationale makes sense, but I'm not sure that this will work. πr2 (t • c) 05:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Vikidia is not a Wikimedia Project. In terms of Wikimedia projects this project does not exist yet. If Vikidia has a compatible license materials could be exchanged. If not, then we have to do it from scratch. Also, Francophone Africa is a large region consisting of many countries, with about 115 million people, so such a project could serve large groups of people especially if internet access spreads. As for doing things on the French Wikipedia, the decision was made that the Simple English Wikipedia would be separate from the traditional English Wikipedia, which does use technical and complex language, so I imagine this would be a parallel action. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know that Vikidia is not a Wikimedia project. Do you think Wikimedia needs a clone of that site? Also, I fear this might become a haven for banned frwiki users, just like simple.wikipedia was. The comments about people in Africa and illiterate people/people with learning disorders still makes sense, but is there any reason for having a separate wiki for this, other than the fact that Simple English Wikipedia exists? Sorry for being so critical, but it just seems a bit... redundant to frwiki and Vikidia. πr2 (t • c) 02:31, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, sometimes Wikimedia may want to have a version of a site even if the concept exists elsewhere, although the impetus may be stronger if there is dissatisfaction on the other site, i.e. how the English Wikivoyage emerged as dissatisfaction came with Wikitravel. As for issues with disruptive users migrating, perhaps one could study what policies, procedures, and habits put that to an end on the Simple English Wikipedia and one could have measures in place as the French Simple Wikipedia starts. As for why I want Wikimedia to have this, from my understanding the Wikimedia projects collectively have a large talent base and perhaps some users involved in the Simple English Wikipedia who know French or have familiarity with French may be interested in working on equivalent articles in Simple French. Having another Wikimedia project makes it easy to translate and transfer material over. I do not know Vikidia's license... if it doesn't have the same license, it complicates things. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Vikidia's licence is the same as wikipedia's. That's why it could be adopted as a Wikimedia sister project as Wikivoyage has been. It would be keeping its aim that is to write for children and let them be involved. See Wikikids#Proposal to merging existing project to Wikikids. There isn't "dissatisfaction" as far as I know, the rationnal would be to give it more audience by it's link to establish in the Wikimedia movement. Actually I think it could rather be Simple English Wikipedia that would be rescpoped or its material transfered in a Wikikids/Vikidia. Astirmays (talk) 17:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
After thinking about it for a bit, Astir, I thought that it would be good to link to existing discussions on Wikikids. I found Wikikids/Wikichild which seems to be the latest proposal WhisperToMe (talk) 06:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Right ! Actually, Wikichild is the latest proposal, but Wikikids is the latest updated proposal ;-). Astirmays (talk) 11:06, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, which page on Vikidia identifies the license? If the license is compatible and this project is started separately it could exchange material, with Vikidia and the Simple French exchanging articles. If they merge into one, it will be a simpler process since the licenses would be the same. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You can see it here. Vivi-1 (talk) 17:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! If it's compatible it means the projects could either merge or otherwise exchange information WhisperToMe (talk) 18:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Vikidia and all these stupid projects should be deleted, i'm 12 years old and 300% of my friends does not use vikidia. But i support the simple french project. -Benjozork (talk) 13:45, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is this project still current? (2014/2015)

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Hello, I would like to know if this process could be still accepted. According to the last news, Francophonie is increasing among francophone countries. There would be around 300 millions of french speakers in the world, and more in future if french education is still maintained in Africa. We talk about this project on Wikipedia in french, it would be nice to say us where you are about this. Thanks :) Embu wiki

Hi, I don't think this project has much chance to be implemented one day, since nearly no French speaking people support it. We do have http://fr.vikidia.org , that is doing well. We even wish that it does not only target children (see Wikikids/For children or by children?#Who should Wikikids be written for?) and we have now opened it in English ( http://en.vikidia.org - Vikidia in English opens today, let’s build a children wiki encyclopedia! ). Astirmays (talk) 07:28, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I may understand you have already made great efforts about another french encylopedies such as Vikidia. But why stop there? As I said, French speakers are increasing. I am not saying there is only french language which is important (I also think it could be nice to make a Simple chineese wikipedia, or something else), but if french wikinautes may participate to the project, they will. Embu wiki
@Astirmays: Do you know the steps I need to take to open the incubator? I had asked what I need to do to get the incubator open and I never got a reply on that. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Simple projects are not allowed on Incubator; as an ISO 639-3 code is required there for test-projects. --MF-W 14:03, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If I cannot use the Incubator, where would I form sample articles or otherwise take the next step in this process? @MF-Warburg: WhisperToMe (talk) 06:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I am not sure either. There exists a wiki on Wikia that was created a long time ago for test-projects that were not allowed on Incubator anymore due to the policy there which requires ISO codes. It is inactive, afaik, but still open. — An easier thing would maybe be to ask Langcom to determine whether Simple French has any chances of being approved at all; then it would be reasonable for Incubator to allow a test-project in it. --MF-W 12:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Did this here: Talk:Language_committee/2015#Any_chance_of_simple_French_Wikipedia_being_approved.3F WhisperToMe (talk) 19:22, 15 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am actually surprised this request hasn't been closed as a no yet, its been open for years. -Djsasso (talk) 14:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it means that this projet has chances to success. Embu wiki 21:46, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@MF-Warburg: Is there a contact e-mail of some sort I may use? I haven't seen a reply yet about this issue. Thanks! WhisperToMe (talk) 14:40, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Continuez d’attendre ! Les membres du Comité des langues sont tous morts, depuis longtemps ! Bon courage :-) 78.250.170.177 21:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic Text Simplification Research (2015)

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Hello, I am a researcher from University of Pennsylvania. Many researchers including me in the field of computational linguistics (computer science + linguistics, a branch of artificial intelligence) actually create softwares to automatically simplifies sentences (reference). And one of the most important dataset needed to train such computer models is actually Simple English Wikipedia. It would be *really* great if Wikipedia is available in more other "Simple" languages. Although it is hard to adhere to a certain guideline or have a clear definition of "Simple" language, we can actually have computer programs to figure it out if there are enough data available. - xuwei912 (talk) 05:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment

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LangCom agrees that a "Simple French Wikipedia" test, based on français fondamental, is an "eligible" project.[1] The test will not be created on Incubator. Instead, it will be incubated on French Wikipedia,[2] though the mechanism for doing so has not yet been decided. (See fr:Wikipédia:Le Bistro/8 août 2018#Une version en français simple ? and fr:Wikipédia:Bistro des non-francophones#Is the FRwiki community willing to have a Simple French Wikipedia be incubated on here?.) When further information is available about how this test project will be created and maintained, that information will be posted here and at incubator:Wp/fr-simple. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:56, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  1. ↑ It is important to note that the existence of français fondamental as an already-established simple form of French is a key element of the eligibility of this project. "Simple" tests cannot be eligible for a project unless an established standard for a simple version of the language exists. At this writing, LangCom is not aware of such standards outside French and English.
  2. ↑ The incubation of this project on French Wikipedia, and not on Incubator, is also a key element of the eligibility of the project.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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