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Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Xibe

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submitted verification final decision

Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.

    This proposal is on hold:

    The language code is valid, and the language appears to be living, so it can be eligible. However, the main contributor to the Incubator claims only level 2 knowledge of the language. The Language committee would appreciate a confirmation that the Incubator is being developed by a viable group of people who know the language well. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amire80 (talk) 2024-11-11 (UTC)
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code sjo (SIL, Glottolog) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Xibe Language name in English
Language name ᠰᡳᠪᡝ ᡤᡳᠰᡠᠨ Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q13223 - item has currently the following values:
 Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality Vertical, LTR per lines Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links Online keyboard by abkai.net Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL sjo.wikipedia.org langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name ᠸᡞ᠌ᡣᡞᡦᡝᡩ᠋ᡞ᠌ᠶᠠ "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace ᠸᡞ᠌ᡣᡞᡦᡝᡩ᠋ᡞ᠌ᠶᠠ usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads no Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-mnc-mong.svg This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone Asia/Shanghai "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

edit
  • Number of speakers: 30,000 people
  • Locations spoken: Qapqal Xibe Autonomous County

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Foavi33 (talk) 2021-01-03 20:08 (UTC)

Discussion

edit
Which strikes me as a bit problematic. People shouldn't be opening Wikimedia projects in languages they aren't fluent, and preferably native in.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosfilaes: About this issue, I'd love to copy-paste some sentences from @MiiCii: on incubator, by [1] and [2]:

lit.

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Liuxinyu970226: from your sentences, it must be likely to let me say that MiiCii made a damnly lie for you and us: "The Japanese is a Tungusic language". Well @Whym, Rxy, Sotiale, Tmv, and Penn Station: are we really sure this? 日本語は満州語とは何の関係もありません！(there are no relations between Japanese and Manchu languages!) thank you for copy-pasting. --117.136.54.60 01:24, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@117.136.54.60: Hey, I'm not copy-pasting done (Quip: both Incubator and Meta-Wiki are CC BY-SA, so copy-pasting is Okay with mentioned the author(s) and obey same license), that user later removed all thing that mentioned Japanese. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@117.136.54.60: Attention please. あなたの気持ちは理解できます。中国語で入力したので、意味が十分に伝わっていないと思います。私は「日本語はツングース諸語に属する(The Japanese is a Tungusic language)」とは思いません。トークページで私は「満州語と日本語は同質の語順を持つ言語」(中国語:一门和满语共享同质的语序)であると言いましたが、別に「同質の言語」であるとは言っていません。これは特に両言語が共にSOV語順に従う言語であるからです。津曲敏郎氏は生前、消滅の危機に瀕するツングース語において、日本語とツングース諸語の「単語の並び方」と「文章の構造」の相似性について言及しています、これは貴方が「何の関係もありません」と言い切れるものではありません。
個別単語の相似性についても断言(A is B)はしてはいません。例え日本語とツングース諸語間の借用関係が将来証明されたとしても（今のところはそれを証明する歴史的資料すら存在しないと自分勝手に思っていますが）、「日本語はツングース諸語である」という主張とは所詮別物です。今、私たちが話している日本語に英語やフランス語から借用された単語があるからと言って、「日本語はゲルマン諸語の一つである」とか「日本語はロマンス諸語に属する」ということはできないでしょう。
かつて日本で育った過去があるので、満洲語の語順を苦労することなくマスターできました。これについては日本の方々及び日本の言語に感謝の意を述べるほかありません。しかし、日本語に対する発言が、そう理解されたことについては誠に遺憾に思います。--MiiCii 08:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't ping me for routine conversations. There was a big fuss about the Scots Wikipedia, and that was done for entirely positive reasons as well. Opening Wikipedias "to preserve language" can actively hurt languages.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:16, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the end of next week, I will try to carry out systematic consultation with my Xibe native speakers friends, and I hope to start active editing in the near future. From now on, I will edit entries to be aware of the authenticity of the source and try to avoid editing anything that is not corroborated to avoid misleading the reader.

MiiCii 13:11, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 
@2001:B07:6442:8903:F9E7:363F:33BF:1CA7:Hope this logo will be helpful to you.
Online keyboard of Xibe script is able to input the words of logo.
By the way, Do you mean the words of logo in Xibe script? (ᠸᡳᡴᡳᡦᡝᡩᡳᠠ, I'm not sure how to display the Xibe script vertically on Meta-wiki, please rotate the Xibe text above 90° clockwise) or the Manchu script on the Main Page of Xibe Wikipedia?
The logo on the Main Page of Xibe Wikipedia was written in Manchu script (ᡠᡳᡴᡳᡦᡝᡩᡳᠶᠠ), rather than Xibe script(ᠸᡳᡴᡳᡦᡝᡩᡳᠠ). Xibe script is created based on Manchu script, but there are difference between them. In Manchu, There is no syllable spelled as "wi (ᠸᡳ)" in twelve uju (syllables), while in Xibe script, the syllable is legal.
So it is quite necessary to convert the former icon in Manchu to the new one written in Xibe script.MiiCii 12:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
When typing scripts with the help of the Template Wp/mnc/MongolUnicode, the sentences were displayed as the Manchu font.
It's urgently necessary for us to
1. To create or import a kind of Unicode (It must be start with "Template:Wp/sjo", not"Wp/mnc") that is able to display Xibe script correctly.
2. To find a better compatibility between traditional Xibe script (vertical) and Romanizationed transliteration. --MiiCii (talk) 11:07 10 January 2021 (UTC)
@MiiCii: About your logo, well, per foundation:Visual identity guidelines, you must choose Linux Libertine for latin scripts. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:54, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosfilaes: Well the blockage of Chinese Wikipedia in Mainland China didn't stop Mainland China editors from becoming the largest share of contributor on Chinese Wikipedia, although the possibility of unblocking could lead to even more editors always exists. And, given there are much more external efforts on the language of Manchu than Xibe, I think Xibe is relatively less likely to suffer from the kind of situation you described. And according to an article I found online (This is a repost as original article was apparently published on something similar to Wechat MP), field study reveal nowadays in area inhabited by Xibe their languages are still being spoken not just natively but also by people of other groups around them. Another thing of note is that the article also mentioned the divergence of Xibe from Manchu as the people there and experts involved see it as start from middle of last century when a modified writing system was invented for Xibe which make it distinct from the original Manchu writing system which cause it to diverging and develop into separate. C933103 (talk) 09:01, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
List of "test wikis" of Tungusic languages
Bold: has content pages, Italic: has no content pages, just a portal page
Language name Wp/ Wt/ Wb/ Wn/ Wq/ Wy/
Even incubator:Wp/eve incubator:Wt/eve incubator:Wb/eve - - -
Evenki incubator:Wp/evn incubator:Wt/evn incubator:Wb/evn - - -
Negidal incubator:Wp/neg incubator:Wt/neg incubator:Wb/neg - - -
Oroqen incubator:Wp/orh incubator:Wt/orh incubator:Wb/orh - - -
Oroch incubator:Wp/oac incubator:Wt/oac incubator:Wb/oac - - -
Udege incubator:Wp/ude incubator:Wt/ude incubator:Wb/ude - - -
Jurchen incubator:Wp/juc - - - - -
Manchu incubator:Wp/mnc incubator:Wt/mnc incubator:Wb/mnc incubator:Wn/mnc incubator:Wq/mnc incubator:Wy/mnc
Xibe incubator:Wp/sjo - - - - -
Nanai incubator:Wp/gld incubator:Wt/gld incubator:Wb/gld - - -
Orok incubator:Wp/oaa incubator:Wt/oaa incubator:Wb/oaa - - -
Ulch incubator:Wp/ulc incubator:Wt/ulc incubator:Wb/ulc - - -
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