Talk:2016 Strategy/Community consultation translations

Approaches on different pages

I just saw, that since I translated some of the approaches, they have changed significantly. And why do we have to translate the same approaches twice on different pages? Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 11:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Sänger: I'm sorry about the pages changing, that was mostly me fixing my own errors, and hopefully won't be happening again now that I've sorted myself out. I know it's really annoying for translators to be asked to go back over something they've already done, and I appreciate (so much!) the time you and the other translators have been willing to give us to help with this. If it helps, I am doing my best to copy the approaches from editnotices to main pages (and vice versa) as they're translated, leaving sourcing notes on the translation talk pages, exactly because I want to save you guys the trouble of having to do the same thing twice. Please do let me know with a ping or an email if you see any I've missed. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 16:31, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I see this as something systematic with the wrong priorities @WMF. Instead of caring about such basic needs of the community as a good translatio tool, they care more about useless forum impersonations like Flow, nobody ever asked for, push beta-software with superprotect down the throats of the unwilling community, who want just to wait until it's ready for prime time, and so forth. Get those things, that matter for the community, first, you've got more than enough personel and monetary resources to do so, but waste it ion useless bling. (It's not you personally, just the WMF in general, that has proven it's disconnect from the communities quite good in the last month and years,just read the current signpost.) Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 16:38, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Is there any overview page what's still missing in any language?

It's quite annoying to have to go to all single translatable pages one by one to look if anything has changed, is new, is not translated yet at all or whatever. Isn't there any overview? And wouldn't that be far more constructive to develop than the useless Flow-bling? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sänger (talk)

I've been keeping a tally of that off-wiki for myself, because yeah, that's super-useful information. I hadn't thought about how obviously useful it would be for the translators, as well. I'll spend some time today seeing how I can translate that to an on-wiki format and hopefully come back here later on with a pointer. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 16:46, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Sänger: I've updated the translations page with the current translation progress (well, current as of yesterday afternoon). Languages that aren't listed have no translation started yet. It's a bit ugly, but I couldn't figure out a way to make it in table format without making additions nearly impossible, so I went for plain lists instead. Feel free to update the numbers if you wish, or to just use that information as a jumping-off point (I expect to be keeping the numbers updated most days). Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kbrown (WMF): Thanks a lot for your work.

I've come along some strange stuff:

• Here[1] it says, not everything's translated yet, but nothing's missing. Or am I missing something?
• Here[2] it's the same (75% translated, that's 4 out of 4)

Everything's translated now, at least nothing's missing. Could you please change the Done to Not done, once you change anything?

Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 18:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Bug report (progress on finished translation not showing as 100%)

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T106262

Bug report- I have fully translated the zh part, but the progress bar is not showing 100%. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 00:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC) moved this comment from here Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:19, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

This has happened in a few spots that I've noticed, Shangkuanlc. I'm monitoring the pages by hand, so it's not a huge deal as far as tracking, but it's definitely a weird situation and denies the translators the satisfaction of seeing that big "100%" on the screen. I'm going to ask around to some people who are better with the Translate Extension than I am and see if anyone knows why this might be happening and if we can fix it. Thanks for flagging the bug here! Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:19, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

If you purge the translation group statistics (i.e. click here), it should be OK. --Tacsipacsi (talk) 18:05, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Tacsipacsi and Kbrown (WMF) for the feedback, but unfortunately no it's still not OK for zh from my laptop, it keeps showing wrong progress bar. I have made this video to demo the issue I am encountering, hope this clarifies my situation. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 17:17, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

It's the same here, as I said in the paragraph above. The devs should do more about such down-to-earth stuff, that really helps editors and the community, instead of wasting time for useless bling like Flow. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 17:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

You have to do this for every translation group you want to see correctly. Just change the group name (between &group= and the next & in the above link) to your translation group’s name (it’s page-<title> if you translate a single page and aggr-<name> if an aggregate group). --Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The paid devs in SF should make this work proper, and leave bling as Flow alone until such basics are working. Thanks for such hacking clues, but that's not a proper solution, just a short-time remedy. As I can't file a bug in Phab (was too outspoken against another piece of useless bling), could someone else do please? Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 05:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Sorry for the delayed response, folks. I've manually purged the translation group statistics for each page, and this seems to have taken care of the progress reporting issue for now. Hopefully languages that show up as done now will stay that way, but I'm going to adopt Tacsipacsi's purge trick every time I update the numbers, just to be sure. I'm also going to poke around among staff and see if there's anyone capable of taking a look at the bug from the back end. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 16:22, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kbrown (WMF): Can you pleas file a phab for this bug and post the number here? As I said, I can't, because AKlapper didn't like my outspoken critics over there. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 16:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

@Sänger: I am a complete newbie at Phabricator, so it's possible I don't know what I'm looking at, but I think phab:T106262 covers the same issue (it was filed in July 2015). If you have the time, could you please take a look at that ticket and let me know if that's what we're talking about here, or if I need to file a new bug? Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 19:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kbrown (WMF): Yes, I think that may be the right one, but it shows the contempt of the WMF to do proper maintenance of existing stuff, but rather look at shiny but unwanted bling instead:

• Piramidion created this task.Via Web · Jul 19 2015, 9:56 AM
• Assigned To: None
• Priority: High

Over 6 month old, high priority, and not even a dev assigned to it. I would expect more of a service agency for the communities, as the WMF is. Could you ping this phab somehow and perhaps get some of the countless paid devs to work on this? Flow doesn't need any time as long as stuff like this isn't working. Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 19:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

[3]--Liang(WMTW) (talk) 05:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

@Sänger: I've bumped the phabricator thread (and added a clearer link to it up above in this section). Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

• That purging trick doesn't update the on-page statistics. The on-page statistics is one edit slow. Starting with 0% translated (which is wrong), every next message translated shows correct statistics for the previous message, which is why you have to edit the very last message twice to make the statistics show 100% translated.--Piramidion 02:45, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Is it possible to make the button to link to localized page?

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T50292

When people click "Go to the next topic area" button, it always jump back to the english page. I am wondering if I start with the Chinese version, is it possible to continue the link into Chinese instead of jump back to English. I believe it would be better for user's who don't understand English to continue this process more easily. Thank you. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 08:57, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@Shangkuanlc: Yes, I believe I can do that. I had been trying it another way - grabbing the user's language preference from Special:MyLanguage - but that only works if they've got a local language set, I think. Thank you for letting me know that it wasn't working for you (and probably a lot of other people)! I have changed the way the link works so that it now grabs the translation subpage name (/zh, /es, etc) and appends it to the target of the link. I'm going to let the new format stay on the Communities page only for a few hours to double-check that I haven't broken anything, and then do the same thing on Reach and Knowledge (and possibly the sidebar) if it looks good. Please let me know if the link on Communities continues to not direct you to the right place, or if you notice it doing anything strange that it shouldn't be, so I can fix it and/or self-revert. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:20, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@@Kbrown (WMF): Well, I think the issue was also caused by that I use Chinese(Traditional) not Chinese as my language setting. For Chinese setting it is rather complicated. For me, my top 3 language setting is Chinese(Traditional) / 中文(繁體) / zh-hant, Chinese(Taiwan) / 中文(台灣) / zh-tw, and Chinese 中文 / zh. There is only Chinese translation available for now, so if I set up my language setting in Chinese (Traditional) or Chinese (Taiwan), it will reset to English.... I will put the two language with translation so people may feel easier to use. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 15:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@Shangkuanlc: Yeah, we unfortunately have two choices for a link like this: a) use user preferences (won't work if people don't have it set, or if there is no current page translation for their preferred language), or b) use their current page name to grab which translation they prefer out of what's available (won't work perfectly if someone's preferred language doesn't have a translation yet). The way I've changed it to today, it will basically borrow their language preference for however they are viewing the 2016 Strategy/Communities page - whichever language's translation they are viewing "Communities" in, they will be directed to that language for "Knowledge" when they click the link, unless there is no version in that language, in which case they will be sent to English (for lack of any better option, mostly). So it would be great if you can add translations for your other languages, so that non-English-speakers don't have to wade through all the English translations! I know I've probably said this already, but you and all the other volunteer translators around here are absolutely amazing and I am so glad that we have your help :) Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:57, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

I think we can mix the two methods: if you write Special:MyLanguage/2016 Strategy/Communities{{#translation:}}, first it tries to find the translation matching the page language (2016 Strategy/Communities/de – I tried this solution with German (de) and Bavarian (bar) interface/subpage, this is how it would work from the German translation). If it doesn’t (because I wrote bar which has no translation), falls back to interface language (de/en). Unfortunately Special:MyLanguage doesn’t support the fallback chain either, so we can’t provide it in any way. --Tacsipacsi (talk) 16:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Wow, every time I think I've learned what I need to know about translation markup, I discover that there's another layer of complexity that I didn't even know existed (and that community members are basically magic ninjas of translation knowledge!). Thank you for the suggestion, Tacsipacsi - I've implemented your idea on Communities, and it seems to be doing exactly what we needed. I'll let it sit for a little while to make sure nothing explodes because I screwed it up...again...and then see about adapting the other pages' buttons to match. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 21:53, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Update a few hours later: Nothing seems to have burst into flames, so I've moved the button links and the sidebar links to Tacsipacsi's recommended style. Thank you all, and please let me know if you see anything else like this I need to fix! Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 01:23, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

This is important issue! IMHO, this should be feature request for improve "Special:MyLanguage" behavior - maybe by using "fallback sequence" setting, or some special setting. @Amire80:, @Nemo bis: - your opinion? --Kaganer (talk) 09:57, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Kaganer, thank you for the suggestion. I'm not very good at working with Phabricator, but I've located an existing ticket on this issue and given it a bump. Hopefully it will get some attention. Kbrown (WMF) (talk) 15:58, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Kbrown (WMF). After all the translation version are expanded, the experience seems smoother. --Liang(WMTW) (talk) 16:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, this is just exactly that solution ;) Let's wait for the implementation and deploying... --Kaganer (talk) 06:54, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

It's odd...

(Question moved from Talk:2016 Strategy/Reach)

Why is there an specific request for translations specially in the areas & then it's blocked to be done?

--Dportak (talk) 22:16, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@Dportak: Hi, I've seen your contributions at Special:Contributions/Dportak and it looks like you've been able to help with the translations (thank you!). If you're still encountering problems, please could you describe in a bit more detail where the problem occurred (which page or section, or which step of translating, that the problem is at), and what exactly is blocked? Thanks again. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Hey, there! It's just a minor work that translation. Nothing so complicated. I just have the time (resting for a severe thigh concussion) & wanted to help. About the blocking, it disappeared... I was about to start the third area focus, but it was already been done. Though it didn't followed the spirit of the pages i had previously done. I will keep my translating style to make all the pages fit. Thank you!

--Dportak (talk) 00:15, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

The message itself is still in English

Here it is in Hebrew, can someone move it to its correct location under translations? Anyway I added the translation in the Hebrew wikitext forum

שלום לכולם,

קרן ויקימדיה (קו"מ WMF) החל בתהליך התייעצות בו יסייעו ליצור ולתעדף את התכניות של קו"מ החל מיולי 2016 ובמשך 12 או 24 החודשים בהמשך. יעוץ זה יהיה פתוח, על אתר המטא (האתר הדן בנושאי-על של הקרן) החל מה-18 בינואר ועד ה-26 בפברואר, ולאחריו הקרן תשתמש בין היתר ברעיונות אלו לעדכון התכנית השנתית. (עוד בנוגע ללוח הזמנים ניתן לקרוא בדף המטא.)

התגובות שלכם יתקבלו ברצון (ודרושים לנו בהחלט) בדיון המטא (באנגלית) [[[:m:2016 Strategy/Community consultation|תכנון מהלכי 2016/התייעצות קהילתית]]

אנו מתנצלים על הכיתוב באנגלית, כאשר זה מתפרסם באגף שאינו בשפה האנגלית. החשבנו יותר את השגת היעוץ ותרגומו ככל האפשר, ובשפות מסויימות יש התקדמות יפה. אך עדיין נותר הרבה לעשות. יצרנו את מ:תכנון מהלכי 2006/תרגומים על מנת לתאם את התרגום ואת ההתקדמות המושגת. :)

אם יש לכם שאלות, אנא פנו אלי בדף השיחה שלי או בדף השיחה של תכנון המהלכים, או דרך חישמייל (דוא"ל) בכתובת mdennis@wikimdia.org

אני מקווה שתצטרפו אלינו! מגי דניס via העברת הודעות ויקימדיה (שיחה) 21:06, 18 בינואר 2016 (IST)

תורגם בידי משתמש:פשוט Pashute (talk) 23:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

@Pashute: Hi. Thank you for the translation! I'm not sure which page you're looking at, but it looks like you've translated the MassMessage announcement from January 18, that went out to (amongst hundreds of others):

• ויקיספר:מזנון he.wikibooks.org
• ויקיחדשות:דסק חדשות he.wikinews.org
• ויקיפדיה:מזנון he.wikipedia.org
• ויקיציטוט:מזנון he.wikiquote.org
• ויקיטקסט:מזנון he.wikisource.org
• ויקימילון:מזנון he.wiktionary.org

Please do update those messages directly, if you're willing! Translation work is always deeply appreciated.

If you're interested in doing more, there are still some untranslated pages here on Meta, related to the consultation. Specifically these messages. However, this part of the consultation closes on February 15, and there is a never-ending stream of interesting and/or important things to translate, so you may wish to focus on the pieces that seem most important, e.g. the buttons (Template:StrategyButton2016/Reach, Template:StrategyButton2016/Communities, and Template:StrategyButton2016/Knowledge). Hope that helps, and thanks again! Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2016 (UTC)