User talk:Verdy p/archive1

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My main discussion page is on the French edition of Wikipédia. But you may write here, as I will come regularly on Meta too. See: w:fr:Discussion Utilisateur:Verdy p. Thanks.

Posting email addresses

please repost that long screed you just posted but with the email addresses removed. Thank you. ++Lar: t/c 04:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... i have deleted the emails (keeping just the first initial of the domain, they are not usable emails)

I can't be very mild, because of the fact that the stewards have used tools that were not what was requested:

notably they have used delete tools, or a speedy deletion procedure, instead of renaming.

I have not asked any deletion (except the current SUL global id and this was done)

I don't understand what had been done after this, this has nothing in common to what I have requested.

Will has done that apparently, and I don't understand that he diod not understand my request, because he explained me in an email what he would do. I replied OK to what he described, but this is not what he did.

So now I have accounts deleted (insted of being renamed), as well as deleted pages.

And I can no longer access to English wikipedia, and cannot even recreate an account there (due to restrictions based on similarity of names).

I think that some tests have garbed the letter case, or he made an error. I know it was tricky, but I detailed each time the expected letter case for the last letter "p" in my user name.

Due to the current speedy deletion procedures still going on, this will even worsen, if nothing is stopped to avoid more damages.

May be Will did not make any error, but this signals another bug in the admin tools. I have NOT requested all this havoc. Verdy P 04:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Note: don't attempt to write to me on the English wikipedia: there's no way for me to reply there, and in fact I don't know how to reconnect to my english pages and history there "Verdy P" (capital P) because the account has been incorrectly deleted and cannot be recreated by me due to similarity with the existing "verdy_p" (lowercase p) account that I DON'T WANT).

Preferably use my email address you know, or contact me on the talk page of my home wiki wikipedia:fr:utilisateur:verdy_p that is not concerned by all these errors (not caused by me)... Verdy P 04:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand your frustration but you do not have to get mean here. We are not en:wp, and we do the best we can. Will also means well, I know him and have worked with him and if he made a mistake, if you can explain to him what needs doing he will work with you. SUL has bumps but it is a good thing. Thanks for editing out that info. ++Lar: t/c 04:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, perhaps I'm not being clear. I am sorry you ran into trouble with SUL but you need to not be so mean to everyone. If you don't stop casting aspersions on others, you may be blocked here on meta to stop the disruption, which will certainly interfere with your getting your situation resolved. Here is my suggestion. Be polite. Slow down, listen to what other people are saying, try to follow their instructions closely (your going into SUL early apparently was part of the issue), assume good faith when they try to help you and most of all stop with the tendentious and caustic comments. I am not kidding. PS, please reply here, instead of at my talk, I prefer to keep conversations threaded. I will be moving your reply to me back to here to keep it all together. ++Lar: t/c 12:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of accounts

Regarding your note to WJBscribe, I'm posting this note to you to clarify a few minor points:

• Regarding WJBscribe:

1. WJBscribe, while a bureaucrat with the ability to delete pages and rename users, cannot actually delete accounts using his on-wiki tools.

   Deletion has occured on "verdy_p2004", and was even requested by him... with a pending "speed deletion" request still remaining for "verdy_p" that I have not asked myself. verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

2. WJBscribe does not have SQL access to the database as a sysadmin, no toolserver access (not that this would help), and he has no svn access. I have just checked the developer wiki and there is no entry showing a deletion of your account by anyone with such access, even if they would grant that sort of request, which they would not. Plainly put, he does not have the access to delete your account, and would have no motivation to do so if he had.

   So may be this is someone else that performed the other things. The account Verdy_P is deleted despite the user page and its history is still there: I can't reconnect to it, MediaWiki says that there's no such user!. verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

3. WJBscribe has performed two operations, both renames (which automatically move the userpages and reassign the edits to the new username), no other actions. I've left the relevant log entries at Steward_requests/SUL_requests#User:Verdy_p. I've checked: He has not deleted any pages pertaining to you at all.

   So those operations were bogous and there's a bug. Seriously, he did not make only that: see the speedy deletion requests! and the now missing user account verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

• Regarding SUL renames, you can perform these steps to make sure your rename and contribution reassignments go smoothly:

1. Move to Meta and request that the global account be deleted and mention that you've verified that all your current accounts have valid, current email addresses set.

   This was already done. The SUL account was disunified after I had checked that all accounts registered in SUL were confirmed, and before he (and some other admins) performed the various operations.

2. Request that the account with your edits be renamed to your desired username, on that wiki. Note to the bureaucrats that you will be logging out so as to not corrupt the process. Log out on Wikipedia

   I can't request it because I can no longer connect to it. Will was the EN.WP bureaucrat that proposed to perform these renames. We exchanged emails for doing that. He explained what he would do, but visibly what he did does not reflect the current state of the accounts. verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

3. Immediately log out. Check Wikipedia to make sure you aren't logged in. If you are, visit en:special:userlogout. For this process to work correctly, you need to be logged out, otherwise you risk accidentally creating a new account on Wikipedia.

   That's the most tricky part: how can I know that all operartios are done without connecting? Anyway I can't connect now to Verdy_P (user no longer exists, but it has NOT been renamed verdy_p because very_p has NOT been renamed verdy_p2008 as indicated.) So there must have been some collisions between admins/b'crats/others taking my request in charge. verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

It's a terrible process, granted, and the developers are working on the kinks, but the fact of the matter is that there are issues, and normal users like you, me, and WJBscribe can only do so much.

WJBscribe has done exactly what you asked, from what I can tell, and only the bugs inherent in how the system creates accounts has caused you these problems. Frankly, I think you owe him an apology. Kylu 06:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

An apology for what? He has still not explained me directly what he did. I am left with no clue, and no access to EN.WP to request something. I could owe you to send me an apology for the quirks and bugs in the whole SUL and renaming bugs remaining. But in fact, if this is really a bug, I hope that developers will investigate what really happened, because nothing has happened the way I requested and confirmed. This process for now looks only destructive and certainly not harmless. It has failed for some reasons that I cannot explain myself because I have followed the indicated procedures, and really I can't determine who or what is to blame as the cause of the account losses. verdy_p 06:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

You owe him an apology for the tone you have taken. Read what Kylu is telling you, carefully. If you keep demanding apologies and being abusive, if you keep being confrontational, you may find yourself blocked. Slow down, be nice, assume others mean well when they are trying to help you and above all, be nice. Oh did I remember to add "be nice" ?? I mean it. I am not kidding. ++Lar: t/c 12:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't take this the wrong way, but the more people you assault with the attitude (regardless of how you've been treated in the past), the fewer people willing to assist you with your problems. At the moment, I've got the ability to assist users with SUL issues on Meta, currently including (when it's a clear cut case) deleting a global account or unmerging local accounts if needed. As you've demanded an apology from someone (me) who has only tried to give an alternate means of correcting the issue you're facing and pointing out that others will not find your behavior appropriate, I've become one of the users that can help you that will decide not to. You don't have many more opportunities to correct this.

I suggest in the future, please ask for help without the confrontational tone: Everyone on Meta is a volunteer and is trying to help users with the problems and snags they've run across. While sympathetic, we're not responsible for the problems that have plagued you. Kylu 07:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I was not confrontational in my first requests, until some one suggested this could be interpreted like this; that's when i saw "speedy deletion requests" that I was very irritated. And then when I saw that all my preferences were lost and apparently nothing was moved, and that I coulkd see the user pages and discussion left in wikipedia:en:User:Verdy P that I could no longer access with a user account, that I fell very nervous.

Anyway there was effectively a bug: the accounts were renamed, but only the history was moved; the following were NOT moved: the user preferences, the user's pages, and the user's talk pages.

This has created lot of confusion about with which account to proceed, because a new account was reusing the old user pages left by another renamed account. And I am now currently correcting all these left areas to recover from the situation.

I'll also empty the pages in User:Verdy_P (after verifying they are transfered) because they no longer belong to my account.

You shoudl know and explain to others that renaming accounts does NOT move everything, and at least not even the user preferences and user's pages (this would require moving with redirects, with possible caveats left by those redirects if someone else reuse the freed account).

I wonder how users with conflicting usernames whose one is renamed to leave the place to someone else, are managing the situation... And this may explain why the German wiki rejects all account rename requests. Another against the too mimited strategy currently used in SUL: it really must be corrected so that different usernames can be supported without requiring any renaming. verdy_p 08:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Another effect of this bad management of my request is that now I have lost the ownership of ALL my past edits using the old account on EN.WP (which was ncorrectly renamed in that time), and now that old account has been deleted as "unused" which is completely false. It has alwaus belonged to me, evn if I could o longer connect to it. One effect of this incorrect deletion is that it has been reapproriated by someone else. My past history on EN.WP (and my user right on the associated contents) is now violated.

May I reask the ownership of these edits (even if this means that I'll own two accounts on EN.WP (one of them being unused now because it was renamed by admins in the problematic early deployment of SUL which caused this havoc), but which originally used the same username as the one that exists today, and the same email address with which I subscribed originally (this second account has never been a sock puppet, it was always clearly identified as mine). Admins should never delete accounts like this; if they feared something they should have just blocked my old account without dissociating it from my main SUL account. verdy_p (talk) 10:50, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

My lost accounts en en.wp (verdy_p)

(moved from my talk, please keep it here)

In the SUL requests, you can see an exchange related to the situation of my accounts on EN.WP. Sorry if this appears to be not very mild, but I am in sort of emergency, because data has been deleted by Will, and this does not match any of the request por what he has described.

Apparently all things got garbled, and there's even been some attempt to merge accounts (I was told this was not possible) notably the very old account verdy_p2004 that did not need any change, but has been partly merged into the history of Verdy_P (capital P), then the account Verdy_P has been deleted (but not verdy_p2004). This is really not what I have asked.

Additionally verdy_p (created automatically by SUL in the last few days) was not renamed to verdy_p2002 as requested, instead it was speedy marked for speedy deletion. (verdy_p2008 does not exist).

Finally I can no longer access to any account on EN.WP... except the one that I don't want to keep and created by SUL a few days ago. Everything is garbled. Verdy P 04:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Lar's logged out and gone to bed. He won't likely see this note until tomorrow night at the earliest. Kylu 05:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes I had went to bed. I doubt very much that WJBScribe deleted anything. Or merged anything. He doesn't have the ability to do so. I think you are confused and you need to slow down and listen carefully while this is sorted out, and not go do things until everyone tells you it's clear to do so. I think at least part of this problem may have been caused by you not following directions... ++Lar: t/c 12:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

No, I followed the directions. You just don't know the whole story. In fact ONLY the user accunts were moved, but absolutely nothing that were attached to those accounts:

• The users' home page were not moved, so the accounts were pointing to pages from old account
• The users' talk pages were not moved, so all discussions were still pointing on the old accounts
• The users' preferences were not moved, but instead blank preferences were generated, with only the password and email set, and the user's signatures were not moved, but mixed...
• The users subpages (/monobook.js and /monobook.css and so on) were not moved

So absolutely in the accounts after the move was indicating that the moves had occured. All appears as if someone else had stolen all the settings. This was never explained by anyone or in the documentation pages.

For this reason, I had to manually copy/paste the contents of user pages, and to recreate all the preferences. This has completely mixed the histories. I had also to blank all user pages belonging to Verdy_P on en.wp, because they were still there but no longer associated to my account. Someone should have said that renaming accounts was only moving the passwords and blanking all user preferences, but the new accounts after renaming could now point to user pages left by another renamed account.

This requires documentation somewhere because this process is extremely confusive. Maybe others have not experienced this problem because their target account was completely new, so they immediately saw that their user pages were completely new nd had to be transfered after the account renaming.

But for all user accounts that are renamed to avoid conflicts across different SUL users, this situation will be misleading: the users will still get the user pages from another unrelated user.

Also loosing all the preferences after renaming accounts is certainly a bug to correct in the admin tool used by bureaucrats. And these limitations must be told to bureaucrats because visibly they (possibly even you) even don't know about this very confusive caveat.

verdy_p 14:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikispecies

Thanks for your kind words and appreciation towards Wikispecies. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Persian

Hi. I saw your vote for the Persian wikinews. just for your information. Take care.--Mani1 10:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

What? Where and when ? What's the relation with your Google search??? verdy_p 08:10, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Duplicated

you haven`t understand my editions. I eliminate duplicated rows. You have reverted my edition, but then you had to restore my work. You have reached the same point that I. And If got angry is because it isn`t the first time i made that work. Crazymadlover

What? where? and then??? -- verdy_p 08:09, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Translation

Please do not just create blank sources if you do not know the languages. Redlinks are good to track progress. Please also discuss major changes before you do them and use edit summaries. Cbrown1023 talk 14:15, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

OK but I followed the procedure, and indicated the tracking version id, and the status in the table... as indicated... verdy_p 14:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

If you create the page with the source know, what happens when we make a change the source? The new translations will not have an updated source because we already created it for them. It lowers confusion when they jsut click the "missing" link and create it themselves. Thank you for being bold, but major changes should not be done in the middle of a big project without any discussion. :-) Cbrown1023 talk 14:22, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

It was using inconsistant bolds, ... I just corrected it, also saw that some that were in progress were not, and were already copies of the English file. That's why I wanted a clear distinction of missing translations. (Only a minor visual aspect was the status in italic, to ease the distinction with the language name (and the black color was for the box, instead of red when in progress. Is that really a major change ?

Finally when I saw the multicolor column, it was just hard to see what was really completed (that's why I reordered the list by status, but apparently you don't like it. It does notmatter much anyway, I'll keep the alphatic order of codes...)

verdy_p 14:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

All the changes at once that I see when I get up in the morning is considered major. :-) The black really hurts the eyes and outweighs all the other ones... italics would be fine, I agree with you that it makes it look better. The ones that were just copies of the English file (I hope) were done by translators for that language (I would think that they are like "okay, I'm going to translate this, let's prepare"). The re-ordering makes it difficult to find your own language and is kinda icky to update (it's also a lot different the normal, which is not something we want in a big drive). I appreciate your attempts to make it look better. :-) Cbrown1023 talk 14:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

/me embrasse verdy_p for translating so much :D Cbrown1023 talk 21:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Global notifications

Hello Verdy p,
I replied to your suggestions at Talk:Global_notifications (will use subpages as soon as possible); but I think your last post there might have belonged elsewhere (other discussion)? --- Nice regards, Melancholie 20:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)