User talk:Verdy p/archive5

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My main discussion page is on the French edition of Wikipédia. But you may write here, as I will come regularly on Meta too. See: w:fr:Discussion Utilisateur:Verdy p. Thanks.

Wrong translate tagging

Please don't add markers manually. Thanks, Nemo 13:59, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Merci

Merci pour tous tes efforts de traduction ! guillom 17:38, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

;-) Pas de quoi. verdy_p (talk) 03:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

"Élections 2013 à la Fondation Wikimedia"

Is it better than "Élections 2013 de la Fondation Wikimedia"? If so, maybe the title of Wikimedia Foundation elections 2013/fr should be changed. PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:24, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

You did not need to indicate that to me, I had immediately translated the second string just after the first one, using the same terms. Yes it is better to speak about "élections 2013" without separating it, because of the preposition. This means that 2013 is the date of elections, and not elections to a new foundation. verdy_p (talk) 03:30, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Template:Translatable template

What exactly was wrong with it, so you had to change it? Guillaume and I supposedly fixed it earlier. BTW, your little debug thing is showing up in lots of pages (like Italian regional languages). Maybe test on test.wikipedia.org? PiRSquared17 (talk) 00:36, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I ma debugging it because it does not find the language. verdy_p (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah, that's true! Feel free to try to fix it. If you can't fix the Lua after a while, just revert to this, so it doesn't get too prominent. PiRSquared17 (talk) 00:39, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I found the bug an it's in the strange way you tested the apostrophe in the namespace.

This test is now commented out, because I don't know where an apostrophe may break things here.

If you want to test the apostrophe the regexp match has to be written in a different way (to be tested elsewhere).

I comented out the debug line in Template:Translatable template (which generated some visible trace data visible in at absolute position just at top-right of the window to avoid breaking the rest of the layout).

Now translated templates do work and no longer display English only. verdy_p (talk) 01:48, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

"Now translate templates do work" - unfortunately it now also breaks pages like Italian_regional_languages. PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:55, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, you should have said why and where you needed to test the apostrophe.

I've tried several solutions, and now found the correct way to match the presence or absence of the apostrophe. The MediaWiki function for testing known languages should not break like this. But now this also works on pages with apostrophes in their names. verdy_p (talk) 02:17, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi, we don't have any control over the isKnownLanguageTag, do we? It seems to just use a hard-coded PHP function (MediaWiki's Language::isKnownLanguageTag). Now it's giving errors for non-existent translations (see the bottom of Global rollback/de). Hmmmmm PiRSquared17 (talk) 02:22, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

so now I have my wroking templates, and your page for Italian region languages OK. But this isKnownLanguageTag() function is definitely broken. May be we should simply rewrite it in Lua... verdy_p (talk) 02:27, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Category:Pages with script errors - these all seem to be related to the "translatable template" module (not sure how to fix, only know JS & MediaWiki template, not Lua) PiRSquared17 (talk) 02:29, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I see. So this Lua module fails to detect correctly the translations (the previous code had a test for testing the presend of apostrophe but it behaved always as if this was true, and only the English template was rendered, no translation at all... verdy_p (talk) 02:35, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmmmm... the category is filled with "pages with errors", but I don't see any one, may be this list is a cache that will need time to flush out (not more time that it took to fill itself. verdy_p (talk) 02:43, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

bugzilla:49423 PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:26, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

OK but with the test of apostrophes (that now works), we have no more script errors, and translations are found correctly as well For me it's fixed for our edits, even if the issue in Bugzilla is not. I wonder however why it just affects the apostrophe and not other punctuations that may appear in page titles where translatable templates will be included. verdy_p (talk) 03:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for all the help! PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:Tech news nav

Bonjour. Depuis cette modification, le lien de génération de la page suivante ne fonctionne plus : la page devrait être ouverte en modification, et le contenu par défaut et le résumé de modifications devraient être préremplis. Comme ta modification a également modifié le formatage du code, il m'est très difficile d'identifier la source du problème. Peux-tu voir comment le réparer ? Merci. guillom 13:33, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

The code in Template:Tech news nav is correct but NOT the code in Template:Tech news nav/en which is not editable. This is a problem of synchronization with the translation tool. Only an admin can correct Template:Tech news nav/en which is completely out of sync (and contains an extra pipe character in its syntax).

If you're an admin mark again the source Template:Tech news nav for translation and look at what it generates in the English version (or others), and make sure that it effectivey reports the translation. In my opinion these complex templates should better not be translated this way with te translation tool, or they should use a base template containing the shared code which can be corrected where needed.

I absolutely cannot correct this bug which is probably there shince long, unless you give me the right to mark the page for translation (I've performedn many tranalations work on this site, as well as changes needed to support RTL languages, plus many CSS corrections, plus HTML5 conformance corrections, and accessibility fixes, but MEta still has lots of issues in its translation as it uses various technics, many of them outdated and not working properly together). verdy_p (talk) 14:57, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I confirm that the bug is not from my edit, but from FuzzyBot that added a mysterious pipe (|) in the generated link; this does not match the code of the base template (without language code). verdy_p (talk) 15:01, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

In summary please mark the template again for translation, I will fix all the other languages so that they use the additonal "tvar" elements whih are currently in the existing base code (ween number is incorrectly formatted, I know, but this won't take long to fix as soon as the base is marked again. FuzzyBot apparently made the edits directly, before the template was fully translatable with the translation tool). There's no bug in my code.

Note that there was further edits by someone else in the base code, to force the generated table to use the assumed "ltr" direction, but in fact this could also avoid this assumption. verdy_p (talk) 15:56, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Translation headers for the Evaluation portal

Hi Verdy p. First of all, thank you for adding translation headers to the pages of the Evaluation portal. I appreciate your help. There's one thing to watch out for: on some pages that are regularly updated by my bot, your new header template may be overwritten. I've updated the code for this page so that the bot no longer overwrites your changes, but it may be happening on other pages as well. I'll check these pages and make changes as needed, but please let me know if you see the bot reverting your work because I may not notice. Thanks, Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 21:00, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Translation request

Greetings. I see you have experience translating pages here at Meta. If you are willing and able, Wikimedia LGBT, a proposed user group, is currently recruiting people to assist with page translations. Any assistance would be much appreciated. Thank you for your consideration. --Another Believer (talk) 16:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Wow, you are really going to town on the WM LGBT pages. It is hard for me to follow all of the changes you are making, but you look like you know what you are doing! I posted a note on the talk page to make sure everyone is okay with the main project page being redirected to Wikimedia LGBT/Portal. I look forward to seeing what the project looks like once you are finished with your work. The main page does not show that it has been translated into all 17 pages, but maybe that is something you are still working on. --Another Believer (talk) 05:58, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

The renaming is caused by a caveat of the translate tool used now: there should be no other subpage in a parent page, than language pages.

Otherwise we get into severe havoc while maintaining the translations.

As page titles at top of pages can be customized, this is not really an issue, and I've added the redirect (that the translate admin tool did not create once it had renamed the parent page and all language subpages). So all existing link are not affected and are working, including the shortcut (but I have also fixed a few other existing redirect pages to avoid double redirects, and I am looking at various links to check that they point to the appropriate language.

For the layout, I fix language and script issues, notably line-height to work with scripts requiring taller fonts like Khmer or Tibetan, or the direction for Arabic, Hebrew and other semitic languages.

I also fixed some issues for small screens, or screens with very high or very low display resolution (in dpi), plus line-breaking issues in templates.

I do things seriously, but I cannot do everything at the same time, I just avoid breaking things seriously for long, so it is necessrily a long list of steps to check the results with various languages and scripts.

You'll notice other details corrected like alignment of navigation tabs, correct border colors, plus a small look addition with rounded tops on tabs, this is the only real look and feel change.

I have also fixed some punctuation issues (for example quotation marks are script and language specific). I'll fix other script issues like emphasis with bold and italic styles, an finally I'll completely check accessiblity issues (for visual impaired needing Brailler readers, aural rendering, bigger fonts or zoomability, printability), as well as the correct language tagging for indexing by online site crawlers like Google or Bing. verdy_p (talk 06:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Note: all 17 languages are still there, it's just that the translate tool has not recomputed the stats. This is easy to force by some null edit in a single translatable item for each language (select one translated item, click at end of text, press SPACE, BACKSPACE and revalidate, nothing is changed but the Translate tool recomputes the stats). This is a minori issue of the Translate tool (it has some other severe issues that I've discovered in the last few days and for which I had to find some workarounds until they are corrected). verdy_p (talk) 06:24, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for responding and for making these many improvements to the project. --Another Believer (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Revert

Salut,

Wow, j’ai *aucune* idée d’où ça sort ce diff o_O. On dirait que Translate sait pas gérer les conflits d’édit proprement − tu as dû faire ta modif (mieux que la mienne, j’avais juste changé le premier "caractéristique") entre le moment où j’ai ouvert Translate et le moment où j’ai sauvegardé. Bien vu en tout cas. Jean-Fred (talk) 17:13, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

il gère ça tout à fait correctement sauf si tu passes outre un message de confirmation signalant que tu es en train de modifier une version antérieure sans prendre en compte une nouvelle modif depuis le chargement de la page.

Dans ces cas comme ça, si tu vous ce genre de messages, pense d'abord à rafraîchir la page en tapant Entrée dans la barre d'adresse du navigateur, ça évite des conflits de modifications (car tu en as certainement eu mais tu as choisi de fermer trop vite le message sans le regarder et continuer là où tu en étais).

attention aussi aux répétitions de mots en français (dans certains cas l'anglais utilise deux mots sans réelle différence, mais on n'en a qu'un seul en français, et c'est assez lourd : on peut reformuler en gardant tous les éléments et l'esprit de la phrase (dans nombre de cas, j'évite de trop chambouler la structure des phrases, ça évite des oublis et ça facilite la maintenance, tant que ça reste correct, lisible et bien compréhensible en français sans introduire d'ambiguité ; j'évite aussi en traduisant d'introduire des doubles négations qui sont toujours ambiguës; parfois certains pronoms utilisés en anglais sont trop éloignés et leur traduction directed en français par des pronoms pourrait introduire une ambiguité et il vaut mieux utiliser un rappel du terme principal qu'il désigne avec un adjectif démonstratif ; enfin j'évite cette manie purement anglophone de mettre des majuscules partout et pas seulement dans les titres, alors que ce ne sont que des termes génériques et pas des marques ou des noms identifiables de façon isolée hors du contexte où ils sont employés ; et je respecte la typographie française autant que possible, là où l'anglais omet souvent ce genre de détails). verdy_p (talk) 17:29, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok. Jean-Fred (talk) 19:04, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Shortcut

Hi. I think this edit made the template look worse, but I agree that it should handle RTL and use "nicer" HTML. PiRSquared17 (talk) 00:38, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

What is loooking wrong? I've checked this on RTL pages to see that their layout was not perturbated; note that after simplifying it, it had to adjust the padding to look more like the previous code, as the rendered box was a bit too small (the padding more reproduces the default padding of the former table), to exhibit and read these shortcuts more easily (because these shortcuts are... short. verdy_p (talk) 01:32, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Actualités techniques / 2014 / Semaine 01 Tech | News

Bonjour,

Je lis que CirrusSearch sera ajouté le 30 décembre 2013 sur les wikis en espagnol, français, portugais et russe. Dois-je comprendre les Wikipédias ES, FR, PT et RU, ou bien tous les wikis ES, FR, PT et RU (Wiktionary, Wikisource, Wikivoyage...) ?

Cantons-de-l'Est (talk) 14:35, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

A priori oui, tous les wikis français qui font partie du même jeu de serveurs dans le calendrier habituel de déploiement par "phases" des versions de MediaWiki. Car la Fondation gère les versions langue par langue. Il n'y a que dans la toute première phase de test alpha que quelques wikis spécifiques sont utilisés en test, mais là on est en phase 2, la phase 1 ayant inclus tous les wikis anglophones et quelques wikis multilingues.

Il y a un lien dans presque toutes les entrées des "Tech News" pour plus de détails, et toujours pour ce qui concerne le déploiement de nouvelles options, car les Actualités techniques sont volontairement résumées. Ce lien permet d'avoir un retour en cas d'incident.

verdy_p (talk) 16:25, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Il n'y a aucun changement dans la Wikipédia en français [1], ni dans Wikiquote en français [2]. Cantons-de-l'Est (talk) 11:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

A voir. C'est peut-être repoussé pour après les fêtes s'il manque des admins. Il avait déjà été annoncé qu'il n'y aurait pas de changement en semaine 52, pour la semaine 1, on peut attendre le 2 janvier... De toute facçon les Tech News annoncent cela pour bientôt (changement à venir), elles ne disent pas que c'est fait.Cette section des changements à venir sont pour des travaux qui vont commencer dans 1 ou 2 semaines. Le moteur est cependant déjà bien là de façon statistique, on le voit pour certaines recherches et pas d'autres. verdy_p (talk) 11:29, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Je me permet d’intervenir : la nouvelle recherche a sa propre façon d’être déployée encore plus en douceur qu’avec les fonctionnalités bêta en ajoutant &srbackend=CirrusSearch dans l’URL sur la page de recherche (avec CirrusSearch, sans). Le développeur de la nouvelle recherche a complété les tech news en annonçant que frwiki aurait la fonctionnalité bêta dans la ou les semaines à venir ; quand on cochera cette case, la nouvelle recherche sera automatiquement sélectionnée (comme c’est le cas présentement sur Commons où on peut tester cette fonctionnalité). ~ Seb35 [^_^] 12:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

En attendant je vois déjà des résultats de façon aléatoire venir de temps en temps du nouvel outil (il est possible que cela vienne d'un des serveurs front-end sans qu'on puisse prédire avec les URLs par défaut lequel va utiliser la nouvelle configuration ou pas; ça a du être fait pour permettre de faire un suivi de ce qui se passe, mais surtout développé pour les adminsitrateurs qui auraient du utiliser un front-end séparé plutôt que ce comportement aléatoire), on dirait que c'est activé, même sans activer la Bêta, pour commencer à faire des tests, mais il est clair que l'indexation n'est pas terminée; quand ce sera fait, on aura la fonctionnalité bêta activable par défaut dans ses préférences, pour des tests plus approfondis et moins aléatoires, reproductibles). verdy_p (talk) 14:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC)