User talk:Jon Harald Søby/Archive/11

Request for assistance

Hello Jon,

I had a bit of a problem on the Cherokee Wikipedia. I do not speak much Cherokee, but my language is Navajo, and since these languages are in a similar situation, I decided to look a bit at the Cherokee Wikipedia. What I found is that most content is written by one man, and is littered with English words. This is understandable if these words are for technical concepts, but in fact, it includes simple words such as "discusses" or "labor" or "presses", which I assure you definitely does exists in the Cherokee language.

I brought this issue up with this fellow in a rather pleasant manner, assuming his good faith. From the beginning, he was very short with me, and after just a couple of messages back and forth, he said I was almost trolling and hinted at a threat to block me for disagreeing with his opinion if I did not leave.

However, I continued to try to resolve the issue which had been brought up, and he escalated, by threatening to block me as a troll. He haed also accused me of vandalism, despite it had been a good-faith edit I made.

After he did these things, I told him that he may not block someone simply for disagreeing with his opinion, since it is against the rules of foundation projects, and that if he does this, there is a possibility he will lose his privelages (an acquaintance of mine had this happen to him on a different Wiki). He told me I needed to be blocked, but that he would refer the matter to "another member of the community", which he appears to never have done (no other users except interwiki bots editing on recent changes).

After this, he accused me of making a legal threat against him, which I did no such thing. Apparently, telling him that it is possible for him to lose sysop powers is now a legal threat.

At this point I cited several policy pages from Meta and the English Wikipedia regarding what exactly a legal threat is, what the definition of vandalism is, about assuming good faith, assuming the assumption of good faith, and the like. I told him that what I had said was simply true, that it was possible for him to lose his privilages, if a steward decided such, since he was not elected by a community I do not believe (there does not appear to be any, anyhow), and added that of course if the steward agreed with him instead of me, he may keep his privalages.

I suggested that we call a truce, and that we try to work out the issue with a spirit of fraternity, and that if he does not block me, of course I will not appeal to a steward, in the interest of neither escalating the situation further. However, upon this, I returned tonight to find I am blocked at that Wiki, with the message that I am blocked for 12 months due to "legal threats, trolling, harassment, disruption, and vandalism", and then noted very ironically that I may appeal the block to the foundation.

Each of his allegations is false, the alleged "legal threat" was a warning based on the experience, the "trolling"is simply my opinion which he disagrees, I do not know the source of this "harassment", nor "disruption", and the "vandalism" was several good faith contribution of mine which were reverted (I did not edit war).

He accused me repeatedly of having no contributions at Cherokee Wikipedia and apparently now it is blockable offense just to not contribute, but in fact I contributed several stubs under different IPs.

Discussion page is here: w:chr:User_talk:Jeffrey_V._Merkey and w:chr:User_talk:24.251.68.181 (note how he locked it).

Also, you might try googling his name, I did this when I began to get suspicious of his motives after he started threatening me, and I came up with some interesting result or two (I won't say exactly here because I don't know if it is true or not).

I would appreciate your counsel. --Va Shlyay 78 07:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Response from Jmerkey

This user was trolling and making threats. If he speaks Dine, he would be a valuable asset on the Dine Wikipedia. This user produced no useful content of any kind on the Cherokee Wikipedia and made error ridden edits of an article. This users tone and edits were not productive and when the user did not get the responses he wanted, he resorted to threats. The user does not speak Cherokee. I would be happy to work with this user on the Dine Wikipedia, however, his presence on the Cherokee Wikipedia is disruptive. Jmerkey 18:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Re-response

1. I was not trolling. That is Mr. Merkey's subjective interpretation.
2. I didn't threaten Mr. Merkey any more than he threatened me.
3. Mr Merkey clearly did not read my entire post above, as I noted clearly that I had started several pages under a different IP.
4. I think my tone was more productive than his. From the start, he seemed hostile, but assumed good faith until he threatened to ban me for "trolling", when even chr:WP:TROLL (which he created post ipso facto) recommends simply ignoring trolls.
5. I did not "threaten" him -- I simply warned him that if he banned me to suppress my opinion (which is what he did), I would complain here, which I have. I'm not sure how that is a "threat".
6. I'm not sure how my presence on the chr.wp is disruptive. --Va Shlyay 78 05:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Unblocked

I have unblocked you IP address subject to the following conditions:

• 1. Your participation on the site is to contribute articles in Cherokee and Dine and to assist in helping setup the site.
• 2. You do not make any type of threats, legal or otherwise.
• 3. You work towards assisting in getting the Dine Wikipedia up to acceptable standards as well. I already have another Dine editor feverishly working to get machine assisted translation going for the Dine language. His name is Ronnie Greymountain. I would like very much to see you and he get together and get the Dine Wikipedia off the ground. It really needs a lot of work. If you really want to help, I can post the the Dine lexicons and you can start off by doing translations for them.

Jmerkey 18:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

1. I'm not sure how it is your position to dictate exactly how I am to contribute to a volunteer project. You may be an administrator, but I am still a volunteer here.

We should take this discussion back to the Cherokee Wikipedia. I appreciate you coming back and talking with me in a civil way.

1. I won't make any threats, definitely, but there is a fine line between what is a threat and what is a warning. I should hope that you too refrain from making threats of any kind.

fair enough.

1. Now, do not tell me what is acceptable for our Wikipedia. You may be an administrator there, and I am not sure how that happened considering it is not your language, but if you ban me there, my friend will simply unblock me right away because he is also an admin.

I do not enage in wheel warring, so no worries there. It also is not allowed and wheel warring admins jousting over your account would get all three of us subjected to scrutiny for such conduct.

1. Well, there is nothing wrong with MAT, but I've never seen it used for Navajo. One resource you may use is wiktionaryz (wiktionaryz.org), it has a few entries for Navajo. I don't know if there's a way to query all of the entries in a language though. Would it be possible to find likely matches using a paralell corpus, that could save some time.

I have a better suggestion. How about I post the Cherokee Lexicons and thesauraus on nv.wikimedia.org and remove all the cherokee, and you fill it in in Dine? Also, we need to define the grammar rules for athabaskan. Ronnie has a lot done, but I need to drive over to his house and pick up the latest files. He is also the roadman for the Utah NAC here in the valley.

1. As I said before, it is very time-consuming to type Navajo with the necessary diacritics. I usually use Character Map, at the Navajo Wikipedia there is a toolbox where you can click on the letters, but it still takes far too much time. Since tones or nasalization can change the meaning of a word, it can take three times as long to type an understandable sentence in Navajo as in English.

I have a method that will allow english constructs in dine. I will post the program and you may use it to speed things up. Search in the Wikimedia archives for the syntax. I will post the code to mediawiki. It works like chr2syl. Look that one up on the mediawiki website.

1. Lastly, if I am unblocked now, I don't think this is any longer an issue that belongs at this talk page, we should move it elsewhere. --Va Shlyay 78 02:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep. Jmerkey 07:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Hello Jon

I've saw that you are from Norway, and i want to know if you can help to improve article related to norwegian culture, history... Tell me in my discussion page...

Thank you.

HenriqueCB

Hello again

Look the "Norway" article in pt.wiki: [1]. To me, the content can be expanded. The culture, demographics and much other topics have a small, or don't have content.

So I want to put more things about Norway in portuguese wiki. If you can send in english, or

try to write in portuguese, it's better.

Thank you.

HenriqueCB

Another thing: do you support for any football team?

HenriqueCB

System messages

Hello. I wonder if you can help us on nrm:? Our system messages appear to have reverted to English. Would you know why (or where we can find an answer) - and how we can fix it? Thanks! nrm:User:Man vyi

Back to Norman now! nrm:User:Man vyi

Good. That happens from time to time – for some reason, the database loses contact with the MediaWiki messages (or something), and reverts to English. However, it always solves itself after some time. Jon Harald Søby 09:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

No, thank YOU!

That was no biggie really. I just happen to keep an eye out for vandalism and IPs in general. Thank you from the barnstar, it's my first ever and from a Wikimedia Steward! =D

On another note, I'm planning to translate some Norway-related articles to the Finnish Wikipedia, since there seems to be a lot of stubs about Norway. Norway's a country I'd like to see one day. :) --Roosa _(Talk) 21:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

When you do come over (it's not long – a night at a cozy (well, depends on your neighbours) ship, then a half-boring bus ride through some minor country for a few hours – and you're here), tell us, and we'll arrange for a wikimeet. Jon Harald Søby 22:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Klingon Wiktionary

I've recently become involved with the Klingon Wiktionary.

You may have come across me as an admin on the English Wiktionary.

Firstly, the Klingon wiktionary is under threat of closure. Secondly none of the users of the site have admin or bureaucrat privileges, which greatly hinders our development of the site.

I would like Klingon to be treated as fairly as other constructed languages (indeed, ultimately, all langauges are constructed). We are currently up to 533 articles, and growing, which is more than the edit count for Esperanto or Interlingua.

There is a published Klingon dictionary, which also describes the properly formulated grammar of Klingon. There are websites written in Klingon.

There are two currently big editors on the Klingon Wiktionary (one of which is me under another username). It would seem sensible to grant to both of us admin and bureaucrat privileges, so that we can manage the site ourselves.

I hope you can help in this matter.

Many thanks. Jonathan Webley 12:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I just discovered the request page here on meta, so I've submitted a request for myself there. Sorry to bother you. Jonathan Webley 21:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem; sorry I didn't respond, I've been a bit busy lately, with school and stuff. Jon Harald Søby 01:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yiddish wikipedia request from your bot

First of all we thank u for putting all the interwikis first in English then in second Hebrew, we would like to organize deutsch-german to be the third since our Yiddish languge originates from German, and this will help allot to term articles and wording according to its parent language after comparing the English and Hebrew options which is intertwined in modern Yiddish. thanks. also if you can organize this that other bots should note it as well. thanks. --יודל 18:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Andre Engels has fixed it, so my bot (and any other updated pywikipediabot running on yi:) will now have the links in the order "en, he, de + rest". Jon Harald Søby 21:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hawaiian Wikipedia

Hello. I think that the Communism vandal made a large scale attack on the Hawaiian Wikipedia, including the main page there and your user page as well. Perhaps you should block this account. Thank you. Regards, Húsönd 04:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocked now.--Húsönd 05:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Marianne Aulie

Kan du få låst den artikkelen på engelsk WP, samt fjerne historikken, ettersom navn på de to personene som hun beskyldte for voldtekt stadigvekk ligger i historikken. Takk. --Lipothymia 18:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Har sendt en epost til oversight-l, men er ikke 100 % sikker på om det er en slik sak; uansett, noen av folka der kan nok ordne opp i det. Jon Harald Søby 18:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Norge

Er det du som har byttet ut navnet ditt med «Hansii» øverst på støttelisten?Johannes Kaasa

Nei… [2] Takk far at du sa fra. Jon Harald Søby 12:31, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Requesting your advice and help

Hi Jon. I'm from the current be.wikipedia.org (one of the three yesterday's admins pro tem). We have a sort of situation there now, which I do not exactly understand how to deal with. Users from the ru.wikipedia.org are signing up and pushing on another to the adminship, effectively flashmobbing the sort of "takeover". Our project was pushed out of incubator in a bit of a rush (just the second day is passing), we lack the administrative experience still, we didn't yet gather even all of our team together, and we look to the flooding by the users whose goals seem not exactly wholesome. What would be your advice? Could you offer us some help? Thanks. Yury Tarasievich 13:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not sure about what you should do, but I think a requirement for voting should be a certain number of contributions (perhaps 100 or so), or that one should have Belarusian as a native language (though the first one is clearly the more neutral). Jon Harald Søby 14:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

So, to re-iterate, requesting the 100 (non-minor or just main namespace?) edits in this wiki, including the incubator phase, and counted by the date of the say 2007-03-28 00:00 UTC, would it be okay to put such requirement as an entry requirement for the voting? Yury Tarasievich 15:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I would assume so. Jon Harald Søby 16:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

And this 100 contributions, when the wiki is just opened, may they be contributions in incubator wiki? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 14:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think the pages were imported from the Incubator, so your contributions on Incubator should be on be: as well. Jon Harald Søby 15:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The fact is that they want to make an admin a guy from ruwiki, who had not contributions in incubator, and almost can not speak Belarussian, only with big errors. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 14:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello Jon. Sorry for my broken english. I only want to tell, that Yaroslav Zolotaryov [3] can't be sysop and vote in elections, becouse he has only 29 edits in main-namespace incubator:Wb\be\ [4]. But he use his temporaly sysop-flag and protect elections page, so we can't remove his votes and his elections. [5] --Morpheios Melas 06:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Updated: Sysop Mienski stops Yaroslav despotismm and unprotect election page [6] --Morpheios Melas 08:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

What kind of despotism do you mean? This page was protected and unprotected several times today. What do ruwiki do in this wiki now at all?--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 08:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I was administrator in Incubator, so mainly my edits were deleting of pages, blocking users, etc. Are they relevant to the elections? (Yaroslav) --62.68.146.96 07:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

No only non-minor edits in main-namespace. Read upper. --Morpheios Melas 08:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Entirely I support. At User:Yaroslav Zolotaryov practically is not present edits + there is no knowledge of the Byelorussian language.--Afinogenoff 08:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

One more: Yaroslav always change rules of elections. In begin there are no any rules. When he became lose elections was inserted rule about 100 non-minor edits in main-namespace of incubator:Wb\be\. Now after we count his edits he want change rules again. --Morpheios Melas 08:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Stopping flashmob with newly created accounts is changing of the rules? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 08:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

what flash-mob? be.wikipedia.org was created two days ago. All account is just created. And i'm talking about last rule changing: you want count non main-namespace edits, becouse hasn't 100 of them. --Morpheios Melas 08:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

You made a flood of accounts of people from Russia, who do not know belorussian language. When Belorussians deleted your votes after consultation with this steward, 70% of belorussians vote for me to continue to be their admin. So you go to Meta trying to win this vote by this mean. Ok, let this steward decide - if I was an admin in Incubator, and Belorussians were satisfied and proposed to me to be an admin now, may I participate in the voting? Yes, my main help in the Incubator was admin help. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 08:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't now about ruwiki voters, but my vote deleted by you. And you not known belorussian language too, but use temporaly sysop flag for despotism.--Morpheios Melas 08:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

You know well, that I speak fluently Belorussian, and every Belorussian know this. Votes of newly created accounts was deleted after decision do not count them. And temporary flag was given to me by stewards of Meta. What despotism do you mean? When you will begin to edit your Russian wikipedia and leave Belorussians, Ukrainians, Siberians alone? You have a lot of work to do in the Russian wikipedia, being a Russian. Please, work here in your native language, but not try to win Belorussian elections. This is bussiness of native Belorussians. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 09:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I never edit Ukrainians, Siberians :)--Morpheios Melas 09:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

More shortly while User:Yaroslav Zolotaryov has not done bad businesses, him it is necessary urgently to deprive adminship of powers in BeWiki.--Afinogenoff 02:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Be Present

• También a mí me apasiona Yanni, te invito a tomar la dirección.

Cricca

Hi, allow me to invite you to read my blog against a group of "admin" in the italian wikipedia. They are damaging the italian wikipedia. Please, go to http://criccawikipediaitaliana.blogspot.com My fifth post in the blog is in english, if you don't understand very well the italian. Sincerely. Prof. Maria Rubino

ROTFL --.anaconda 12:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

sorry, but LOL^2 --dario vet (talk) 12:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Te invito a tomar la dirección de administración en wikiquote en español

Estimado Jon, ruego que intervengas de inmediato en wikiquote en español, mira, recuerda lo que es wikiquote y lo que está sucediendo:

  1. No son dueños de Wikiquote.
  2. No son empleados de Wikiquote.
  3. No tienen autoridad de ningún tipo, más allá de la de cualquier otro usuario.
  4. No son los responsables de poner las normas; las normas de Wikiquote son escritas entre todos los usuarios, por consenso.
  5. No son los únicos que pueden luchar contra vándalos, arreglar errores, y otras tareas de mantenimiento. Todo eso es tarea de todos los usuarios, sin excepción.
  6. No son usuarios de élite.
  7. No deciden qué se borra y qué no, ni a quién se bloquea y a quién no. Eso lo deciden las políticas de Wikiquote y, si no, la propia comunidad.
  8. No tienen ninguna responsabilidad legal, ni de representación de Wikiquote, más allá de la que tenga cualquier otro usuario.
  9. No son infalibles, ni sus actos tienen por qué sentar precedentes.
 10. No tienen poder de veto, ni capacidad de decisión mayor que la de cualquier otro usuario.

• La explicación de lo que sucede es bien sencilla. Ahora te lo explico.

No hay motivo alguno para mi bloqueo. Puedes analizar mis contribuciones.

Estos tres que administran son unos jóvenes irrazonables, testarudos, ateos, anarquistas, radicales, obsesionados con la política y el nacionalismo. Llevo semanas bloqueado sin ningún motivo.

Actualmente, en las universidades y escuelas, los profesores no pueden con estas generaciones de jóvenes rebeldes antisistema como son javierme y Drini que estudia matemáticas pero son inexpertos, no tienen más de 20 o 22 años. He analizado sus fotos.

Te aseguro que tengo conocimientos en multitud de campos sobre el conocimiento, historia, ciencia, artes, humanidades, religión, medicina, psicología.

Macalla es un irresponsable, ateo, que coloca canciones vergonzosas con insultos en la página de Madrid. Drini es un joven rebelde sin compasión y duro de corazón. Le invité a participar en wikiquote y me traiciona bloqueándome. Ha entrado gracias a mí, pero estoy arrepentido, incluso le propuse para administrador, pero me pesa haberlo hecho.

En la actualdad muchos jovencitos son irrazonables y no dispuestos a ningún acuerdo, infieles, me es imposible hablar con ellos y razonar, tal como les sucede a los profesores de institutos, escuelas, y universidades. Te necesitamos para que seas tú quien tenga toda la autoridad y para poder dialogar con alguien maduro, inteligente y responsable, y así desarrollar el conocimiento en wikiquote. Estos chicos tan jóvenes carecen de experiencia y son inmaduros. Pienso que contigo podré dialogar, y que juntos podremos colaborar.

javierme introduce injurias contra los reyes de españa, está alejado del conocimiento y adultera todo el proyecto, es un individuo radical de los que causan problemas en españa. Es antiamericano, defensor del nazismo, radical de izquierdas, totalitario, propalestino radical, antisistema, nacionalista vasco extremista, aficionado a la música de rebelión contra Dios. Pretendió destruír la página de la Biblia y de Dios. Hace fotografias de cuchillos afilados de 50 centímetros. Te aseguro que está desequilibrado pues no está en equilibrio, pues se va a los extremos, no está, por tanto, centrado mentalmente. Tengo conocimientos avanzados en psicología y he analizado a todos estos administradores desde hace varios meses.

Anna promueve el esoterismo por todos lados, dice que es una bruja selecta de la wikipedia.

Esto es vergonzoso. Te ruego amigo Jon, que podamos administrar entre tú y yo la wikiquote en español, entonces avanzaremos en gran manera, y que estos administradores sean removidos cuanto antes.

Interven esta misma semana por favor. Y desbloquea a los usuarios que han sido bloqueados, entre ellos estoy yo. Desde una misma IP pueden trabajar dos usuarios, pueden ser miembros de una misma familia, por tanto no deben ser bloqueados. Estos jóvenes, no se sujetan a las normas, deben ser castigados y expulsados, hazme caso, de verdad.

Amistosamente.

Citadme.

Ruego que intervengas de inmediato

Jon, te ruego que intervengas de inmediato en wikiquote en español. Mira que estamos editando páginas pero este drini es destructivo, mira cómo hace 5 minutos ha destruido páginas editadas. Son niños de 20 años irrazonables. Los psicólogos conocen bien a estos jóvenes, algunos, que son obstinados, traicineros, testarudos y así no se puede trabajar. No saben nada de la Biblia, ni de ciencia ni de nada. Ruego que expulses ya, mañana mismo, a estos tres o cuatro que están vandalizando Wikiquote en español. Y que podamos administrar nosotros dos solamente. Estos niños, no pueden seguir administrando, me es imposible razonar con ellos. --85.54.155.226 22:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Bit of help needed

Hi Jon, your intervention is needed, with regard to the possibly quick resolution of this request: [7]. Per recent decision of User:Dbl2010 [8] all admins lost their status, and we are repeating our admins elections, with rules clarified etc., and User:DDima is chosen by community to be our election officer, so he needs the temp. admin status ASAP. Thanks! Yury Tarasievich 13:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

From cdo wiki

Hello Jon Harald Søby, I'm GnuDoyng, sysop from cdo wiki. Thank you for your bot, and I have granted it the bot status. There's a problem, however... 4 users have been set as bot in cdo wiki (cdo:User:Buffybot, cdo:User:Chobot, cdo:User:JhsBot, cdo:User:VolkovBot) so far, but none of them is working at all. Could you please help me check the problem? --GnuDoyng 13:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)